Micro Toy Haulers

[nhbubba]

One of the reasons among others why people go with micro toy haulers is because of their advantageous weight which more vehicles can handle than bigger "truck only" toy haulers.

I agree completely.

5-ish years ago I was a single guy willing to piss in a bottle at 2AM and live with that wonderful bouquet of sweat/gasoline/motor-oil funk. I built a "micro" hauler that had a simple plywood bunk, a lightweight countertop, a 12V micro-fridge/cooler and some lights. I could tow the thing with a compact FWD car! Then GF, now missus camped in it with me trackside a couple times and I quickly discovered it was not really "wife approved", but more "GF tolerated". And I didn't even have to ask if it would fly for a family. For that you gotta go with something more substantial. And the weight adds up in ways I didn't even consider.

In my opinion the best way to make a "camper" smaller tow vehicle friendly is to drop the wet spaces. No poo hopper, no shower, no sink, no water heater.
It should surprise no one that the first compromise these "micro" haulers make is no or very limited wet spaces.
It turns out water is heavy. Who knew?!

[OneCheekRider]

Definitely have to make a lot of compromises for a micro toy hauler/small camper, but for 1 or 2 people that have minimal requirements I think it beats sleeping in the back of my Jeep or in a tent by a large margin. Like I've said before, I was ready to dish out big $$ for a 28 footer with the works. For my usage and expectations, the reality is I'm either alone or with my GF and both of us are fine using the restrooms at the track, the RV park, or even nature. When you start factoring in a family or even longer trips, something more substantial might make sense.

I realized that in my current point in life, I really just wanted to be a little more comfortable on weekend trackdays and camping. Something I can leave gear or bikes in ready to be hooked up after work on Friday and returned the same way on Sunday. I don't want to deal with dumping tanks, etc. And the relatively small cost comparatively still allows us to stay in hotels for vacation and have me not feel guilty I'm not using the trailer. Not to mention the versatility of being able to store, park, drive, off-road something smaller.

I view micro toy haulers in a similar respect to vans. Definitely not for everybody but has its advantages and disadvantages just like everything else.

[e30addict]

I think it's funny the micro toy hauler thread theme turned into opinions on tow capacity

It's the new oil thread.

[OneCheekRider]

I mean the two kind of go hand in hand.

One of the reasons among others why people go with micro toy haulers is because of their advantageous weight which more vehicles can handle than bigger "truck only" toy haulers.

well sure, but someone posted about a "small" toyhauler under 6000 pounds or something like that, which is out of the scope of this thread IMO. Unless you're pulling with a FWD wagon/sedan like bubba, theoretically tow capacity shouldn't be a problem with these things.

[nhbubba]

Gvwr for your rig is 3k. Same as my old enclosed. So perfect for a midsize pickup or ute.

[Garandman]

Joined a teardrop camper group on FaceBook. Very clever devices.

It is funny. Thinking back to fishing with my buddy and his dad, when we were kids. He had an old woody station wagon, with the shrader valve in the license plate to pump up the rear shocks. Towing a massive boat.

We put air bags on our Odyssey van and put the fill valves under the gas cap.

Measured the height of the wheel arches from the ground and added pressure accordingly.

[sveesix]

In my opinion the best way to make a "camper" smaller tow vehicle friendly is to drop the wet spaces. No poo hopper, no shower, no sink, no water heater.
It should surprise no one that the first compromise these "micro" haulers make is no or very limited wet spaces.
It turns out water is heavy. Who knew?!

I used to have the same train of thought until I hit two different campgrounds in a row with no potable water and outhouses. As I get a little older the creature comforts make all the difference. A wet bath to me is a must. The ability to just pull over anytime anywhere, no leaving the trailer in the middle of the night, etc. they really don’t add that much weight. Filling our small travel trailer (28 gallon freshwater tank) to the brim before departure only adds 225 pounds to the tow weight. I think the gross weight of our trailer loaded is only 3900 pounds including water.

[Paul_E_D]

I agree, a minimalist wet space is a must. A sink with running water, and outdoor shower and at least a cassette toilet make a fundamental change in the experience. 20 gallons of fresh is plenty for 3 days.

[OneCheekRider]

I've been looking at getting something like this: https://www.costco.com/waterport-day...100491652.html or a roof rack mount water option like this: https://www.costco.com/waterport-wee...100758358.html Thoughts?

My trips are typically limited to 2 days, so I figure 8 gallons is enough for dishes, washing hands, possibly a super quick shower. Or even an electric shower head would probably be sufficient since I can fill up some jugs and store them in the trailer fairly easily: https://smile.amazon.com/innhom-Port...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

[Paul_E_D]

I would add the 8 gallong roof rack shower. No brainer. They work great. For cooking and cleaning a 5 gallon jug set up is all you need.

[nhbubba]

20 gallons of fresh is plenty for 3 days.

It seems the market may not agree with you there. Most-including the ones hawley linked-seem to about double that. All of the ones on my wife's short-list have at least 40gal freshwater tanks. Add all the fixtures, pumps and such and it seems to add up fast. At least that's my observation.

It's exciting to see some more minimalist/lighter options out there, like the intech. We also saw an Airstream Basecamp go by on the campground access road last summer. Beautiful execution, of course. They too are very mid-size ute/pickup friendly at like 3500 gross. But then like the intech they are a very premium option. And none of those are toy-haulers either.

I just looked back. I did not realize intech made more large family friendly dual-axle "terra" design. That's cool.
I wish they made a bunk-house config. I think the optimum config for my family may be a quad-cab pickup. Bikes & toys in the bed. And a ~25' bunk-house config travel trailer behind it.

[Paul_E_D]

Both my vans have had 20 gal. fresh. For 2 people it's plenty. We don't take long showers, but I will do multiple post surf rinses per day and still we have never run it dry on a long weekend. It's not enough for home style living. But for vanlife it's fine.

[JettaJayGLS]

It is very nice to have 26 gallons. When you need it, you have it. When you don't need it, it lasts forever. We were at a very very muddy gravel bicycle race the other weekend in the rain and just washing ourselves and bikes off without a care was amazing.
Lots of cool custom tank options these days too, like spare tire holder and ones that go around the wheel arch.
There are a million molds as well for just about every square/round shape you can think of. Turn around time is about a month, cost is ~$400 and they put the fittings where you want them in the size you dictate. That is the route I went.
It is also very simple to add a water level gauge so you can completely hide it and still keep track.
As said above, its about ~250 extra pounds when its full, including the weight of the shurshine pump and a typical sink.
Moral of the story is that you can hide ~20 gallons VERY easily, and having it is nice.

[Kurlon]

I find myself running out of black/grey tank room before I run out of water. Granted, I don't use the water for cooking/drinking, just showers/sinks/flushing.

[ducatirdr]

My Living Lite 7x20 weighs 3800lbs empty. I towed it for years behind a BMW X5 diesel and got 14mpg towing it out to Sturgis and back. The key was its all aluminum frame and construction. Very lite. They went out of business and it seem ATC is now the go to and is priced in the "if you ask for the price you can't afford it" category. It makes sense as they last forever. Spill gas bring the hose in and wash it out. Pipe crack and water blasting out of the wall that memorial day weekend camp out? No worries there is nothing to rot or warp.

I really love mine and it looks as new as the day I bought it. No smells to soak into wood or carpet. I suggest anyone look into a used one.

https://www.rvtrader.com/Livin-Lite-...te%7C183324084

[Garandman]

It turns out water is heavy. Who knew?!

All Infantrymen.

Draw the line at towing around toilet facilities. There’s an app for that: HHonors.

But FWIW the teardrop camper folks swear by this product. “Eco Smart Enzyme RV Holding Tank Deodorant - Waste Digester - Detergent,” which they say completely eliminates odors.

https://www.thetford.com/product/

[OneCheekRider]

For anyone wondering, you can fit precisely 2.5 motorcycles in this thing.

Side note: if you're wondering why there's a WR on 17's and an R6, it's because I ride the kart track between sessions on the big track. It's equally as fun and exhausting as it sounds.


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[OneCheekRider]

Been using this thing about every other weekend. It's awesome but despite it's small size there is a noticeable decrease in MPG. I get better MPG pulling my Mustang on Uhaul trailer but I guess that's aerodynamics for you.

Pic from mountain biking trip:



Recent trip to Chuckwalla (AC was much needed when it was 93 degrees at midnight!):



And I just upgraded the fridge to a unit that is currently on-sale at Costco. Seems to fit the slide perfectly under the removable countertop.



Will be boondocking this weekend at the river, so I'll see how the battery holds up to fridge use and basic power needs. Bringing the generator just in case.

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[JettaJayGLS]

Fridge should only be ~1-1.5 amps once it gets cold. Should last awhileeeeee, just make sure it is pretty full and that you don't bring it down to temp unless you are generating power at the same time. The pop top fridges keep their cool really, really well. Starting with cold food (i.e., take from your house fridge and put into the camper fridge) is also a big energy saver.

Can you remind me how big your battery bank is and what type of batteries?
They're charged off the alternator?

[breakdirt916]

sweeeeeet

pretty dreamy for all the socal stuff

[OneCheekRider]

Fridge should only be ~1-1.5 amps once it gets cold. Should last awhileeeeee, just make sure it is pretty full and that you don't bring it down to temp unless you are generating power at the same time. The pop top fridges keep their cool really, really well. Starting with cold food (i.e., take from your house fridge and put into the camper fridge) is also a big energy saver.

Can you remind me how big your battery bank is and what type of batteries?
They're charged off the alternator?

I'm a total newbie at this stuff, but I believe the stock battery is a single deep cycle rated at 80ah. In the InTech group, a lot of folks are swapping to lithium, although I'm not sure what I would need to add lithium, if anything. At this point, I'm not sure I even need much more juice since my trips are typically leave Friday and home Sunday. The battery is typically charged off the alternator but I do plug in at some tracks/RV park or when I use the generator to run the AC. Speaking of AC, one of the small suitcase generators powers it just fine. I might grab a small solar panel since the trailer is "solar-ready", but even running the generator here and there to charge the battery doesn't seem like a big deal, especially if I want to also run a blender or some other high-power consuming device.

I researched the heck out of these pop top fridges and ended up with the one Costco sells. It has the compressor on the top and a smaller lid which might make it better insulated? It's only 40 quarts so I can bring it in the house to cool it down off AC and load it then put it back in the trailer to maintain temp while we travel. It only takes 20 min to go from 75 degrees to 30. I guess I'll see how well it does this weekend when we head out.

[JettaJayGLS]

I'm a total newbie at this stuff, but I believe the stock battery is a single deep cycle rated at 80ah. In the InTech group, a lot of folks are swapping to lithium, although I'm not sure what I would need to add lithium, if anything. At this point, I'm not sure I even need much more juice since my trips are typically leave Friday and home Sunday. The battery is typically charged off the alternator but I do plug in at some tracks/RV park or when I use the generator to run the AC. Speaking of AC, one of the small suitcase generators powers it just fine. I might grab a small solar panel since the trailer is "solar-ready", but even running the generator here and there to charge the battery doesn't seem like a big deal, especially if I want to also run a blender or some other high-power consuming device.

I researched the heck out of these pop top fridges and ended up with the one Costco sells. It has the compressor on the top and a smaller lid which might make it better insulated? It's only 40 quarts so I can bring it in the house to cool it down off AC and load it then put it back in the trailer to maintain temp while we travel. It only takes 20 min to go from 75 degrees to 30. I guess I'll see how well it does this weekend when we head out.

The only thing to consider if you swap to LiIon is if the charge controller can be set to a LiIon setting. I have not seen one that can't. I also don't really know how much of a difference it really makes.
You can only discharge lead acid batteries ~50% without damaging them, so 80ah of lead acid means a useable 40ah. If your fridge uses 1amp, it can run for 40 hours on a full charge (assuming there are no other draws, such as the AC). If you're going to be parked for long times or running lots of things, you may want to consider increasing the battery bank or getting solar. Do you have a battery monitory to see how much has been discharged?

LiIon can discharge ~80%. So you do get more bang for your buck if you upgrade. They are also way smaller, and way heavier lighter. Downside is that they are super expensive and don't work well if the temps are under 32 degrees. I regret not going LiIon, but a van is better suited to keep them warm. If yours are in a box on the tongue, it may be a bit more difficult.

[JettaJayGLS]

Edit above, LiIon are way smaller and way lighter

[OneCheekRider]

I do not have a battery monitor, but I did purchase a little 12v socket volt meter for the plug inside the trailer. I'm not sure I will be under 32 degrees much if ever, so LiIon is probably the way to go, I just don't want to start throwing money at this thing if the onboard battery is sufficient enough for my current usage. I also need to get better educated on electric. I'm excited for the fridge so we'll see how everything works this weekend and I always have the generator if I need to recharge the battery, although I'm sure firing up the generator would get old quick if I was boondocking for a while. We'll see how it goes as I continue to use this thing! I appreciate your advice, thank you!

[Kurlon]

Welp, I've got one converter that can't actually be adjusted for LiIon. Some day I'll upgrade, maybe... a Solar panel for topping off when sitting and a BiRD to replace the existing isolation relay are higher on the to-do list.