A newb looking for a bike

[Sheppo]

Apparently we have a lack of agreement on what the word "opinion" means, and how that relates to the meanings of the words "facts", and "objective reality". Since those are basic concepts to discussing, well, pretty much anything, I guess it is pointless to continue.

PhilB

Definition of OPINION
1
a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : approval, esteem
2
a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view
3
a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based
— opin·ioned adjective

and we know NONE of us are Experts... so where is the miss-understanding??

[SVRACER01]

Apparently we have a lack of agreement on what the word "opinion" means, and how that relates to the meanings of the words "facts", and "objective reality". Since those are basic concepts to discussing, well, pretty much anything, I guess it is pointless to continue.

PhilB

i think youre just confused. must be all that california sun and smog

heres some definitions for ya:
OPINION:In general, an opinion is a subjective belief, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts. An opinion may be supported by an argument, although people may draw opposing opinions from the same set of facts. Opinions rarely change without new arguments being presented. However, it can be reasoned that one opinion is better supported by the facts than another by analysing the supporting arguments.(i highlighted this part in hopes that would really pay attention here---->) In casual use, the term opinion may be the result of a person's perspective, understanding, particular feelings, beliefs, and desires. It may refer to unsubstantiated information, in contrast to knowledge and fact-based beliefs.
...now youre going to argue that your opinion is fact based...but its not. or at least youve yet to provide facts to back up your opinion.


FACT:A fact is something that has really occurred or is actually the case. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability, that is whether it can be shown to correspond to experience. do you have verifiable evidence to prove your opinion that 600s are more dangerous? no, you have an opinion. and your opinion (since its not fact based, its an opinion NOT fact.) is that they are more dangerous and therefore im wrong because i dont share your beliefs. this might as well be a thread about whether or not god exists....

Phil-god is real
Me-not so much
phil-how can you say that?
me-i just dont think he/she/its real
phil-youre wrong
me- how can i be wrong, based on the evidence presented to me, my opinion is "no god"
phil-look around you, theres your facts, the trees, sky, air. youre wrong

your opinion is that your opinion is fact when in fact your opinion of my opinion being wrong is just your opinion.

[SVRACER01]

i also want note that i dont think youre opinion of what bike to get is wrong. i just think you telling me my opinion is wrong is wrong

[PhilB]

Definition of OPINION
1
a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : approval, esteem
2
a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view
3
a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based
— opin·ioned adjective

and we know NONE of us are Experts... so where is the miss-understanding??

And all of that relates to "view, judgement, belief", and NOT to facts or objective reality. I'll say it again: If I say that it is safer to start on a 250 than on a 600 supersport, and you say a 600 supersport is just as safe as a 250, those claims are not opinions; they relate to an objective reality. The two statements cannot both be true. One of us is factually wrong. Therefore, the subject is not a matter of just opinion. We can "agree to disagree" in the sense of stopping arguing about it, but one of us will still be factually wrong in reality.

So his (or your) claim that his "opinion" cannot possibly be wrong is itself factually wrong.

PhilB

[SVRACER01]

you make my head hurt. you keep saying "fact" but you have none.
objective reality is opinion based.

what i find extraordinarily humorous is that all you arguments are based around safety but then you make this statement:

Yes, I think kids should start in small cheap used cars, held together with duct tape and could blow up at any minute.

yes, i would love to put my first born in some tin can death trap that could implode on itself at any moment. if i had the money to put my child in a vehicle as safe as a BMW, even a used one, i would. at the very least i would get them the safest vehicle that i/they could afford. not some hunk of junk that would crumble if it hit a snowbank.

[SVRACER01]

I started on a 92 Suzuki Katana 600 that I got for $700.

Bike was GREAT to learn on. Enough power to keep yourself happy when you are learning, but not enough to kill yourself.

Wouldnt change anything about that bike, I loved it to learn on. Also EXTREMELY easy to work on.

oh shit! i cant believe i overlooked the old Can-O-Tuna. great learner bike and can always be found for short money

[PhilB]

you make my head hurt. you keep saying "fact" but you have none.
objective reality is opinion based.

Ok, THERE'S the problem. If you believe that, there's no point in discussing anything.

what i find extraordinarily humorous is that all you arguments are based around safety but then you make this statement:

yes, i would love to put my first born in some tin can death trap that could implode on itself at any moment. if i had the money to put my child in a vehicle as safe as a BMW, even a used one, i would. at the very least i would get them the safest vehicle that i/they could afford. not some hunk of junk that would crumble if it hit a snowbank.

Any car will be safer than a bike. And even small used beaters these days have the basic safety equipment. You'd have to go back more than 25 years to get a car that didn't. Those are facts.

PhilB

[SVRACER01]

Wirelessly posted (HTC EVO "DROID" : Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.5; en-us; Sprint APA9292KT Build/GRJ90) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

I give up. You win, you're right, I have no idea what I'm talking about and my opinions are obviously ridiculous. I've moved on.

[aldend123]

Throttle control makes any bike safe. That's a fact. Hell, it makes any vehicle safe. Provable facts. It says so on wikipedia.

[FZR]

so.. has anyone said sv650?

btw, Phil, could you please change your avatar, it's been killing me every page i've gone through thanks.

[PhilB]

so.. has anyone said sv650?

btw, Phil, could you please change your avatar, it's been killing me every page i've gone through thanks.

That one did get mentioned. It's better to start on than a 600, but not as good as a 250 or 500. With the OP's experience, that might be a pretty good choice.

That avatar is the one I use everywhere. I'm not sure how it got that way originally, but I like the effect, sort of a computer generated impressionistic pic of my bike. It does bug some people, but often it helps to see the original pic it came from, from camping in Yosemite.

PhilB

[aldend123]

That avatar is the one I use everywhere. I'm not sure how it got that way originally, but I like the effect, sort of a computer generated impressionistic pic of my bike. It does bug some people, but often it helps to see the original pic it came from, from camping in Yosemite.

PhilB

It looks like some software used the shittiest resizing and/or compression algorithms to ever exist, or you opened, and re-saved, the picture like 1000 times (which re-compressed it each time, which results in a minor degradation of quality per each loss-y compression save).

I guess if you like it, its your avatar. But I think the original one looks significantly nicer.

[PhilB]

It looks like some software used the shittiest resizing and/or compression algorithms to ever exist, or you opened, and re-saved, the picture like 1000 times (which re-compressed it each time, which results in a minor degradation of quality per each loss-y compression save).

I guess if you like it, its your avatar. But I think the original one looks significantly nicer.

It happened the first time I tried to resize that pic to be an avatar-sized pic. I don't know if there was a glitch in the software, or if I just hit the wrong button, but it resized it to a file size of just about nothing.

I like it.

PhilB

[Expat .JR]

You can probably find an SV650 for that price. Great all-around bike.

I LOVE mine im 16 and its my second bike first was an nija 250 both are awesome starter bikes! Hope you find what your looking for!!!!

[FZR]

i keep thinking it's MY computer that's why lol. Btw, if it helps any to the OP, I started on a 1990 ZX6 and sold it after a season

[nhbubba]

Until post #111, I thought PhilB rode a cruiser.