The "truth" about ethanol

[Slyder]

And the article didn't even touch on the damage Ethanol has done to snowmobile engines. Whoever patrols the trails for the state of Maine (not sure if its State Police of F&G) lost 5 machines in one day. Burned motors, all of them ethanol related. Rumor has it Jackman Powersports had 100+ sleds outside with toasted motors in the middle of January.

Wonder how many of those 100+ sleds had their owners dumping isopropyl into the tanks along with ethanol blended fuel.

That is exactly how a friends sled grenaded. I think there's a bit more to it than just using ethanol blended fuel in sleds. People not realizing what they are doing, and adding dry gas to ethanol blended fuel. Also saying temp doesn't matter with a 2 stroke? Oh yes. Yes it does matter. You jet your sled for 20-30 degrees, use non-ethanol blended fuel and no dry gas...then take it across the lake at -20. That MF'er will be SCREAMING...just before it blows. Now imagine having alcohol in the tank.

Just because it rolled off an assembly line doesn't mean that the one you got has the correct main jets. Nor does it mean your needles are set to the right height. My last sled would load up while riding it slowly down the trail.

Now are smaller 2 stroke engines exploding, or are they just getting gunked up? Sleds exploding sure, but I'm not hearing about smaller 2 strokes exploding. Or dirt bikes and so on.

I think there's a lot more behind the scenes to 100+ cooked sleds, than just ethanol blended fuel.

And no, not a pro-maize supporter of the stuff. But we all know our government knows whats best for us. Land of the free

[richw]

Go on a power boat site and ask about ethanol

[markbvt]

Ask a lot of motorcycle mechanics about ethanol.

Ethanol-blended gas breaks down a lot faster. I had to help a friend clean out his carb after he let his dual-sport bike sit for a month. We found what looked like a half-dissolved gummy bear in the bowl. Nasty.

My Triumph dealer will tell you stories about carbs he's taken apart with the needles half eaten away due to sulfuric acid that's formed in the gas from the moisture that ethanol absorbs.

I make a point of buying only non-ethanol gas whenever possible. It makes a significant difference in my XR650L and a slight difference in my Triumph Bonneville (both carbed). My V-Strom runs fine on the ethanol stuff, but it's also only a year old -- it does seem to get better gas mileage on real gas though.

--mark

[rbrais]

The local small-engine repair shop is flooded with weed-whackers and shit that need to be cleaned out.

[rbrais]

maybe your O2 sensor went bad and now it thinks its richer than it is, so the ECU is leaning down your A/F ratio..

did you change anything on the vehicle? tires or pressures? air filter?
aerodynamics? weight load in vehicle?

Nothing recent. Not showing any codes either. If an O2 sensor goes bad I get a check engine light.

[Cerberus]

Nothing recent. Not showing any codes either. If an O2 sensor goes bad I get a check engine light.

sometimes.. sometimes not. at least not necessarily immediately will you get a check engine light or code (hard set or pending).

edit: i find the best way to determine if an O2 sensor is bad is to hook up a scanner that can pull a data stream and go for a ride while watchign the output from the sensor.
if it flat lines (even after warming up) then you have a problem. and one that some ecus won't declare a failure. it require a short or open in the heater circuit before the ecu will call it an O2 sensor problem usually.

[seth399]

sometimes.. sometimes not. at least not necessarily immediately will you get a check engine light or code (hard set or pending).

edit: i find the best way to determine if an O2 sensor is bad is to hook up a scanner that can pull a data stream and go for a ride while watchign the output from the sensor.
if it flat lines (even after warming up) then you have a problem. and one that some ecus won't declare a failure. it require a short or open in the heater circuit before the ecu will call it an O2 sensor problem usually.

In my experience the mileage gets worse if an 02 sensor is bad.

[Cerberus]

In my experience the mileage gets worse if an 02 sensor is bad.

usually, yes. but not always

[seth399]

cool, didn't know that

[SSearchVT]

Now are smaller 2 stroke engines exploding, or are they just getting gunked up?

Weed whackers and chainsaws are blowing up all over the place. It's a 2 fold problem - the engine runs lean because of the fuel (lower BTU then non-ethanol laced fuel), and the premix breaks down a lot quicker. Basically any older motor with a carb needs to be checked to make sure it isn't running lean.

I'm curious to see how the relationship between the new milage requirements for vehicles are going to mix with higher concentrations of ethanol...

[TheIglu]

My 7 bikes, 3 cars, chainsaw, 2 lawn mowers and weedwacker have no had any issues with gas sitting in them over the winter. Red Stabil worked fine for me.

You guys are all smoking crack or something.

[Kurlon]

My 7 bikes, 3 cars, chainsaw, 2 lawn mowers and weedwacker have no had any issues with gas sitting in them over the winter. Red Stabil worked fine for me.

You guys are all smoking crack or something.

And I've been in a bike shop watching the train wreck keep rolling in from Ethanolated gas...

[DuncanMoto]

I used to think my dwindling mileage was due to Ethanol alone, but I recently found a very noticible difference between 2 different gas stations. And I mean 2 different brands of gas. We're talking 10%-15% difference in mileage over thousands of miles to compare it with. I won;t tell you the name of the gas station that gives crappy mileage, but I will tell you that so far I get the best mileage and best running from Irving fuels.

I just got the marine sta-bil and we'll be using that this winter instead of the standard red.

[richw]

Some rubber parts are going by-by because of alcohol

Fiberglass tanks go by by

Things I don't use often, I drain everytime I use them.

If you can not then fill them to the brim with stabilized gas. If there is a large air chamber in the tank everytime the barometric pressure changes the tank breaths. It sucks in moist air and then the hygroscopic effect of the alcohol sucks the moisture into the gas. Eventually there is enough water to "crack" the suspension/solubility of the alcohol and the the water/alcohol settles to the bottom of the tank rust etc. I pulled almost a quart of water from my lawnmower this spring and had to change hose and filter.

[rbrais]

And I've been in a bike shop watching the train wreck keep rolling in from Ethanolated gas...

See any 2-strokes come in and have any advice to keep them running? Getting ready to fire mine up to practice for a race in June.

[Kurlon]

Drain the gas when you're done, drain the bowl, and don't use old gas.

[SSearchVT]

Drain the gas when you're done, drain the bowl, and don't use old gas.

Read your plug, make sure the air filter is clean, shake the gas can before filling the tank. In a race bike it's the same treatment as always - Just be aware that your jetting tables will be off a little because of the change in fuel. If you want to add a level of consistancy (and your circuit doesn't have rules against it) - switch to a racing fuel.

[CMSC]

It also takes about 5 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of ethanol. If the energy used to make ethanol is usually derived from coal or oil....how stupid is that?

Most manufacturers will void warranty coverage if they find more than 10% ethanol in your fuel - what will we do if the gubbermint mandates 15%?

The problem is much worse for 2-strokes. I use GTX260 in my chainsaws at $10 a gallon rather than let them get burned up.

I tested some fuel last October and found that most stations in my area were in the process of shifting from 5.7% summer blend to 10% winter blend. A Mobil nearby had not received any delivery of 10% premium so I loaded up on that one for awhile. According to the computer in my car, there is a significant difference in MPG between the two. Get yourself an ethanol tester (they're cheap) and know what you're getting.

Another good example of your hard-earned tax dollars at "work".

[flyer_kaz]

ok... Since I just bought my first bike a month ago... a 93 CBR 600 F2 that has carbs and all that old school jazz... ethanol is bad for my bike... got it..


now.. since its nigh impossible to find non-ethanol gas stations around me... is there anything I can add to gas to counter-act the effects of ethanol..?

or barring that... any place around the Melrose/Stoneham area that sells straigh gas..?

Kaz

[CMSC]

ok... Since I just bought my first bike a month ago... a 93 CBR 600 F2 that has carbs and all that old school jazz... ethanol is bad for my bike... got it..


now.. since its nigh impossible to find non-ethanol gas stations around me... is there anything I can add to gas to counter-act the effects of ethanol..?

or barring that... any place around the Melrose/Stoneham area that sells straigh gas..?

Kaz

You probably won't find any "straight gas" within a few 100 miles, unless you buy race fuel or 100LL aviation fuel at an airport.