V-Twins Vs, Inline 4's

[SVRACER01]

Originally posted by ZX-12R
That is not exactly true. Any vehicle's peak acceleration is found at its peak power output, not its peak torque output. All other things being equal, a higher powered vehicle will be quicker than a less powerful one.

In a motorcycle, I-4 engines produce significantly more power for any given displacement then the twin counter part. This is due to a number of reasons including combustion efficiency and engine balance. As a result, you will be hard pressed to find a twin that can out run an equivalent sized I-4.

if you could get a twin to spin that high then i bet it would. your comparing a motor that evrrything is moving together(I-4) to a Vtwin that is almost working against itself.

i got mine because i like the sound

[Wishbone]

first off the itallians do do it better (wops) look at the history of races and the fact that thats all they make. neat i LOVE ducsbut am not rich so the matnence kills you, also the jap fours are WAY more dependable, my 620 monster blew up with 61787 miles on it my fizza is going strong with only oil changes with 12k plus. so in summary all the working class stifs go with a jap four if ya got a bank roll go itallian, jap twins are like triump 4s that right i said it now go ahead and start all the pissed off jap twin owners firing back

[R-S-V]

A good comparision is the Master Bike shoot out, I'm sure most here know about it, one bike is picked from all types (600, 750, lliter I4 and Twins, etc) after several performance tests. This year a vtwin took the crown, so they can't be as far off in performance as people like to believe.

Granted I have not been on any of the recent I4 liter machines, but for me, the twin are so satisfying. No need to worry about what gear I'm in, instant thrust anytime in any gear, and that glorious sound, I just can't get enough. They are also very good track weapons, they just need to be ridden differently (so I've heard, have yet to do a track day myself so I'm no racer).

As for Aprilia vtwins, back off They make great power and the 04 and up are lighter and have a good top end (mine is still making power when the rev limiter kicks in).

[RandyO]

Originally posted by SVRACER01
ummm.... my SV650 makes MORE torque than a zx6R

and it doesn't wait till 10,000 rpm to make it's torque either, the SV 650 is within 5lb/ft of it's peak torque throughout the rpm range

twins are much more streetable, they have enuf power everywhere that you don't have to worry about getting out of your own way without downshifting 2 gears

who cares about peak power, it's just a meaningless number

[beet]

Originally posted by ZX-12R
Which is why you find so many Diesel engines on the race track!

HP is a man made #some college boy made up .. torque is a real #
the only bad thing about twins is 4 cams instead or 2 = heavy .
You have a Diesel on your bike ? I sure don't ..

[ZX-12R]

Originally posted by beet
HP is a man made #some college boy made up .. torque is a real #

What???

Horsepower is just as real as torque. It is a measure of how much work an engine can do.

These horspower vs. torque arguments spring up because most people when asked can't give a good definition of either.

[R7]

Screw the I-4s and twins.... get a big single thumper.....Bwaaaaaap

[beet]

Originally posted by ZX-12R
What???

Horsepower is just as real as torque. It is a measure of how much work an engine can do.

These horspower vs. torque arguments spring up because most people when asked can't give a good definition of either.

No way HP was made up to sell cars
" In scientific discourse the term "horsepower" is rarely used due to the various definitions and the existence of an SI unit for power, the watt (W). However, the idea of horsepower persists as a legacy term in many languages, particularly in the automotive industry for listing the maximum rate of power application of internal-combustion engines."

"In physics, torque can be thought of informally as "rotational force". The SI units for Torque are newton meters although centinewton meters (cN·m), foot-pounds force (ft·lbf), inch pounds (lbf·in) and inch ounces (ozf·in) are also frequently used expressions of torque. The symbol for torque is ô, the Greek letter tau. The concept of torque, also called moment or couple, originated with the work of Archimedes on levers. The rotational analogues of force, mass, and acceleration are torque, moment of inertia, and angular acceleration respectively. The force applied to a lever, multiplied by its distance from the lever's fulcrum, is the torque. For example, a force of three newtons applied two metres from the fulcrum exerts the same torque as one newton applied six metres from the fulcrum. This assumes the force is in a direction at right angles to the straight lever. More generally, one may define torque as the cross product:"
"

[SVRACER01]

Originally posted by RandyO
and it doesn't wait till 10,000 rpm to make it's torque either, the SV 650 is within 5lb/ft of it's peak torque throughout the rpm range

twins are much more streetable, they have enuf power everywhere that you don't have to worry about getting out of your own way without downshifting 2 gears

who cares about peak power, it's just a meaningless number

yeah... it more of a torque "table" then a curve. my G/F has a 750 I4. its fun to have that stupid kind of top end. but just like on any I4 the power doesnt come on until halfway up the rev range. who rides around town at 9K+ RPMs on their I4? no one. if that was the case then there would be no need to shift. my G/F bike goes 80+ MPH in 1st!! thats at least 30mph OVER the speed limit on the highway. like BEET said.. I4s are automatics. Twins make you work for the fun and thats half the fun.

When i tell people hao much tap dancing im doing on the shifter around the track.. the I4 guys always say.."why are you shifting so much?" because i have to i rode Dans bike around NHIS and i think the only place you shift is the straight, i think you just leave it in 3rd around most of the track. is that right Dan? BOOOORING!! fast but boring

[Half Squid]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ZX-12R
Underwelmed by a ZX-14? Are you sure all the plug wires were installed? Power wise the 14 is in an entirely different league then the RC-51 so I'm not sure how it was underwelming.

Maybe you should check out an SV650. I've seen one that consistently beat an RC-51 up at New England Dragway [/QUOTE

Originally posted by jwm2k3
Maybe that had something to do with the riders ability?

You fuckers... There will be a re-match some day when I don't have to fucking work..

I will never let this down until I beat OXX....

In My mind TWINS RULE!!! I love the power where ever I feel the need to use it! No dead spots anywhere! I moved from an underpowered YZF600R right onto the RC51 and will have a very hard time moving back to a I4.
BUT NOTHING BEATS THE SOUND OF A GOOD TWIN WITH NICE PIPES!

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by SVRACER01
yeah... it more of a torque "table" then a curve. my G/F has a 750 I4. its fun to have that stupid kind of top end. but just like on any I4 the power doesnt come on until halfway up the rev range. who rides around town at 9K+ RPMs on their I4? no one. if that was the case then there would be no need to shift. my G/F bike goes 80+ MPH in 1st!! thats at least 30mph OVER the speed limit on the highway. like BEET said.. I4s are automatics. Twins make you work for the fun and thats half the fun.

When i tell people hao much tap dancing im doing on the shifter around the track.. the I4 guys always say.."why are you shifting so much?" because i have to i rode Dans bike around NHIS and i think the only place you shift is the straight, i think you just leave it in 3rd around most of the track. is that right Dan? BOOOORING!! fast but boring

Ride my Rex, 70ftlbs by 3 grand.

[RandyO]

Originally posted by TheIglu
Ride my Rex, 70ftlbs by 3 grand.

of course, 1200cc compare a 1200cc twin... 70ftlbs as soon as it's off idle

[ZX-12R]

Originally posted by beet
No way HP was made up to sell cars

I've said it before, the concept of "power" and its relation to torque is lost on most people. The term "horsepower" and its associated physical meaning has been in use long before automobiles came to be. Just because the standard unit of power is the Watt doesn't mean there are no other ways to express it. Look at distance measurement. 1 Mile is the same as 1.6 Kilometers. Is either one of them more or less real then the other? Power is the same way. 1 HP is the same as 745.7 Watts; 550 lbs-ft/sec; 33,000 lbs-ft/min; 42.4 BTU/min; or 178.3 calories/sec. All of these units are ways of expressing power. Because of its origins in quantifying a power source's ability to replace farm animals, the term horsepower has forever been associated with all forms of engines and motors.

The resource that you quoted offers no support to their assertions which is all too common on the internet.

The "horspower doesn't exist" theories you see floating around usually come from the anal scientific community that does not like having multiple units to describe the same physical property.

[Tiller Ayuh]

I knew this is what this would turn into...People with I-4 saying their I-4's make WAAAAY more power than L-twins...I-4's cc for cc would eat a twin...HP's better than torque..Blah...Blah...Blah...I think I've read these type of posts 100 times...I don't care what anyone says, an L-Twin with aftermarket exhaust sounds WAAAAAY better than an I-4 with aftermarket exhaust...

I guess I don't care if a magazine says an I-4 makes 10 - 30 horses more than a twin...Mostly comes down to rider...I don't get my underwear in a bunch because my bike's not the fastest bike out there...I don't care...It sounds NIIIIICE!!! I like what I ride...just my $.02

[ZX-12R]

Originally posted by Tiller Ayuh
L-Twin with aftermarket exhaust sounds WAAAAAY better than an I-4 with aftermarket exhaust...

I can say for certain that my SV650 with a slip-on sounds much meaner than my 12R with a factory exhaust! When I get around to getting an aftermarket pipe on the Kawasaki, I'm going to have a hard time deciding which I like better!

[beet]

ok horse power predates autos
"A horse power (also rendered horse-power) is a now largely-obsolete machine for using draft horses to power other machinery. It is a type of animal engine somewhat more sophisticated than a horse mill. A common design for the horse power was a large treadmill on which one or more horses walked. The surface of the treadmill was made of wooden slats linked like a chain. Rotary motion from the treadmill was first passed to a planetary gear system, and then to a shaft or pulley that could be coupled to another machine.

Horse powers were used to power farm implements and industrial processes. Examples of machines that were powered with a horse power include the threshing machine, the corn sheller, pumps and machines for sawing wood. Horse powers were modular in that they could be attached to whichever implement they were needed for at the time, preventing these machines from needing to incorporate power sources into their design. They could also be used interchangeably with other forms of power, such as a hand crank, line shaft, stationary engine, or the PTO shaft or flat belt pulley from a tractor, which eventually replaced them.

The name of the horse power probably predates the name of the horsepower unit of measurement. (For reference the 1864 Webster's Dictionary defines Horse-power as “A machine operated by one or more horses; a horse engine.")

[RSVMILLE661]

I agree that the twins sound better. Thats the whole reason why I bought one. (2 actually)

My first twin was a super chicken. While a fun streetsport it left a bit to be desired in the twisties due to rubber like chassis. Talk about flex.

My Mille' was a fantastic ride and thanks to the help of Peter Kates and Mike Marterie, it was fairly well sorted when I sold it. I am now saving my pennies for a new (04 or later) Mille' to set up again.

[ultraTwist]

I'm confused, so far I've learned that a 1000cc v-twin is almost as good as a 750cc I4??? And that V2s have more torque or something?

So I went to Sport Rider and found that Honda's 600s are faster then their RC51 and that a 954 has more torque on a flater curve that the RC51 on a lighter bike with less displacement. Forget about the newer bikes.

Sorry I guess

[RSVMILLE661]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

All you need to know.

[beet]

Originally posted by RSVMILLE661
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

All you need to know.

LOL wikipedia is where I go Scotts a git

[RSVMILLE661]

Originally posted by ultraTwist
I'm confused, so far I've learned that a 1000cc v-twin is almost as good as a 750cc I4??? And that V2s have more torque or something?

So I went to Sport Rider and found that Honda's 600s are faster then their RC51 and that a 954 has more torque on a flater curve that the RC51 on a lighter bike with less displacement. Forget about the newer bikes.

Sorry I guess

1000 cc twins are the "equivolent" of a 750 4cyl machine.

As for what sets a faster lap time, it all depends on the track. At NHIS the track record for CCS / LRRS is held by a 600cc 4cyl machine. Certain tracks suit certain bikes better than others.

[RSVMILLE661]

Originally posted by beet
LOL wikipedia is where I go Scotts a git

I learned it by watching you.. Beet!

[Nazo]

I have both and still love an inline 4 overall

However V-Twins do have more character.....especially an Italian.
I love my Duacti 996....I'm not a fan of any other bikes that are supposed to be in the same class though. V-Twins are fun to ride and do offer a different experience with their low end torque.

Downside though is the low RPM range and extreme engine breaking when you let off the throttle.

I also have a Honda 600RR for my racebike and would never imagine being as fast on a V-Twin.
The power of an inline 4 in my opinion is comparable to that of a 2 stroke dirtbike......When the RPMs rev up, the bike comes alive.
I only ride 2 stroke dirtbikes as well.

Inline 4's have a longer power range and less engine breaking. If your talking about liter bikes, you won't find any V-Twin that can match the power of an R1, Gixxer 1000 ...etc.

Its all preference and opinion I suppose. Its a good topic, but its like argueing about religion

I'm glad I have both and don't have to choose one or the other.

P.S...Jay just badmouths my Ducati because he knows he can't afford one and even if he could its too classy for him......Hessoghetto

[ultraTwist]

I like the Duc's too, shame they're always in the way.

[RSVMILLE661]

In a perfect world I would have a Tuono for the street as well as an MV Brutale 910R. The track would be a Mille' and a GSX-R 600.

Again best of both worlds.