2009 DOT Race Motorcycle Tire Shootout

[Eddie]

Since spring is just around the corner why not ditch the political threads and up the volume of some real motorcycle related discussions?

Here is an interesting article regarding dot approved motorcycle rubber:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/545/49...-Shootout.aspx

[Jim]

Avon front tire on the track went down on hot PSI temps?

[scottieducati]

Steve Atlas is a fast guy.... got a chance to try the new Conti's shortly before we did... waiting for an update to his initial impressions which were very positive.

[Fitz]

I'm all about trying a set of Conti's this year on my SV... but in the reviews online I keep seeing people stress how inexpensive these tires are - "$340 for the slick - almost $100 under other manufacturers." Specific to Loudon, Dunlop's seem to be the most expensive, followed up closely by Michelin's, Bridgestone and Pirelli's.

I was unable to find much for pricing online save for street and comp. For a 120/165 B-stone slick it looks to be about $347. Are tires more expensive out west?

Thanks,
Fitz

[scottieducati]

Most quotes you'll find are talking about 120/180 set prices (references below are all 120/180 slicks at 2009 pricing)

Continental = $378 / set
Bridgestone = $385 / set
Michelin = $400 / set
Pirelli = $423 / set
Dunlop = $475 / set (wild guess)


I'm talking standard racer pricing not "what I can get em for" pricing.

I know Pirelli prices are going to go up by a significant margin, and would only assume other brands will follow. West Coast guys usually see new pricing before we do, and as a general rule pricing is a bit more out west with taxes and shipping and the like.

Basically... Conti should battle with Bridgestone for the "budget" minded racer... but they're going to last longer, and judging from how well they've done performance wise in Europe and what I've heard talking to the guys out West who have been racing them, I'm guessing they'll be right up there with Dunlop as far as lap times go if some fast guys decide to try em.

Their key objective when entering the market though wasn't "outright" performance, it was performance AND longevity. Good for the customer (your tires last longer), not so good for us (less repeat business)... then again hopefully we won't have people pissed off about how their brand new 180 DOT tire is shredded after one or two races, both Pirelli and Dunlop suffered from that last year.

I found this review (click) from TrackDayMag.com today, it's a pretty interesting read.

So we'll have to wait and see how all this plays out at NHMS... based on all indications though, an Amateur running good times on an SV should see damn near half a season from a set of tires... which is pretty flippin incredible.

It amuses me how different riders are out west than they are out here. They seem generally open to trying new things which must come from the "laid back" attitude they have out there in Cali, the young-gun we interviewed came off Dunlops and loved the Contis, another 17 year old expert was trying them out coming off Pirellis (looking for a tire that'd last longer on a 600), and the paddock seemed pretty evenly spread with the various brands.

Anyway, time will tell. Personally it's pretty obvious I get excited about stuff, I really like these tires. I also really like Pirellis and Dunlops, and I've never ridden Bridgestone or Michelin but they're good tires as well. What I'd like the most about the Conti's is the price + longevity = value argument... as I know I can't reach the Nth percentile of performance of any of the tires, so what I want is something I'm comfortable with that will do what I need and last as long as possible. That's not always what everyone is looking for, so your mileage may vary as they say.

I'm all about trying a set of Conti's this year on my SV... but in the reviews online I keep seeing people stress how inexpensive these tires are - "$340 for the slick - almost $100 under other manufacturers." Specific to Loudon, Dunlop's seem to be the most expensive, followed up closely by Michelin's, Bridgestone and Pirelli's.

I was unable to find much for pricing online save for street and comp. For a 120/165 B-stone slick it looks to be about $347. Are tires more expensive out west?

Thanks,
Fitz

[Fitz]

Most quotes you'll find are talking about 120/180 set prices (references below are all 120/180 slicks at 2009 pricing)

Continental = $378 / set
Bridgestone = $385 / set
Pirelli = $423 / set
Dunlop = $475 / set (wild guess)
Michelin = ???

I'm talking standard racer pricing not "what I can get em for" pricing.

I know Pirelli prices are going to go up by a significant margin, and would only assume other brands will follow. West Coast guys usually see new pricing before we do, and as a general rule pricing is a bit more out west with taxes and shipping and the like.

Basically... Conti should battle with Bridgestone for the "budget" minded racer... but they're going to last longer, and judging from how well they've done performance wise in Europe and what I've heard talking to the guys out West who have been racing them, I'm guessing they'll be right up there with Dunlop as far as lap times go if some fast guys decide to try em.

Their key objective when entering the market though wasn't "outright" performance, it was performance AND longevity. Good for the customer (your tires last longer), not so good for us (less repeat business)... then again hopefully we won't have people pissed off about how their brand new 180 DOT tire is shredded after one or two races, both Pirelli and Dunlop suffered from that last year.

I found this review (click) from TrackDayMag.com today, it's a pretty interesting read.

So we'll have to wait and see how all this plays out at NHMS... based on all indications though, an Amateur running good times on an SV should see damn near half a season from a set of tires... which is pretty flippin incredible.

It amuses me how different riders are out west than they are out here. They seem generally open to trying new things which must come from the "laid back" attitude they have out there in Cali, the young-gun we interviewed came off Dunlops and loved the Contis, another 17 year old expert was trying them out coming off Pirellis (looking for a tire that'd last longer on a 600), and the paddock seemed pretty evenly spread with the various brands.

Anyway, time will tell. Personally it's pretty obvious I get excited about stuff, I really like these tires. I also really like Pirellis and Dunlops, and I've never ridden Bridgestone or Michelin but they're good tires as well. What I'd like the most about the Conti's is the price + longevity = value argument... as I know I can't reach the Nth percentile of performance of any of the tires, so what I want is something I'm comfortable with that will do what I need and last as long as possible. That's not always what everyone is looking for, so your mileage may vary as they say.

Thanks for clarifying that Scott. I'm definitely in for a set. Now if only they made a 120/160 rain tire combo.

Fitz

[Mr. Kurtz]

I know Pirelli prices are going to go up by a significant margin, and would only assume other brands will follow.

I can't speak to the other brands, but Pirelli racer net price is the same for 2010 as it was in 2009.

[MysteriousR1]

Salesmen

[Degsy]

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I know Pirelli prices are going to go up by a significant margin, and would only assume other brands will follow.

I can't speak to the other brands, but Pirelli racer net price is the same for 2010 as it was in 2009.

That's not what your distributor told us.

Oh and scottie, you're a riot. Ever the salesman.

[Karaya One]

Good for that guy getting $490.00 a set for Michelin slicks! We were doing $400.00 a set, and I have sale slick tires under $300.00 a set.

[Mr. Kurtz]

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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.337 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

I know Pirelli prices are going to go up by a significant margin, and would only assume other brands will follow.

I can't speak to the other brands, but Pirelli racer net price is the same for 2010 as it was in 2009.

That's not what your distributor told us.

Oh and scottie, you're a riot. Ever the salesman.

I also can't speak to what Boston Moto may have been told before they were removed as the LRRS Pirelli distributor.

Again, racer net price on all Pirelli race tires is the same for 2010 as it was for 2009.

[Degsy]

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Good for that guy getting $490.00 a set for Michelin slicks! We were doing $400.00 a set, and I have sale slick tires under $300.00 a set.

I was thinking the same thing Dave

[bostongixxer]

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I also can't speak to what Boston Moto may have been told before they were removed as the LRRS Pirelli distributor.

You mean before they were jacked by TTD and the slimebag in NJ? Some breach of contract and tortious interference issues lurking there, I suspect. Better hope the boys at BoMo are forgiving. I suspect they'll be moving on to better things.

[scottieducati]

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Nice pricing Dave. This was from another michelin (trackday) vendor.. Must not get as good a deal

[butcher bergs]

[Eddie]

The bt003rs' actually retail for almost half as much the power ones. I think I'm going to give them a shot.

[Manny]

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Kurtz does racer net mean tires are more expensive for track day people??

[xsiliconkid]

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Nice pricing Dave. This was from another michelin (trackday) vendor.. Must not get as good a deal

Every dealer/distributor/ reseller/ etc. gets the same price for their category of distribution (USA antitrust law- volume independent).
Scottie, you have to start matching apples with apples..... Or people will stop believing you! Both in pricing and what products to compare.

[xsiliconkid]

You mean before they were jacked by TTD and the slimebag in NJ? Some breach of contract and tortious interference issues lurking there, I suspect. Better hope the boys at BoMo are forgiving. I suspect they'll be moving on to better things.

There are three sides to every story, your's, mine, and the right one!

[Qfactor]

Since spring is just around the corner why not ditch the political threads and up the volume of some real motorcycle related discussions?

Bwahahaha

Q

[scottieducati]

Graham, Dave:

I am comparing apples with apples. Sorry about the original mis-quote of $490 Dave.

2009 Michelin track side support price sheet:

Suggested Track Side Pricing:
120/17 Competition Slick Front: $185
180/17 Competition Slick Rear: $250
Set Price: $435

2009 Continental Price Sheet:

Suggested Track Side Pricing:
120/17 ContiRaceAttack Slick: $150.38
180/16 ContiRaceAttack Slick: $195.16
Set Price: $345.54

This is what I was trying to answer Fitz with, he said reviews have quoted $100 cheaper, and that's because the suggested pricing is about $100 less than most brands. Like I said clearly, "I'm talking msrp (racer net) pricing, not what I can sell / get them for pricing."

Just trying to help answer questions on the price point of various tires, seems some brands are a bit less transparent in their pricing than what I'm used to.

You can buy a set of just about any rubber you want online for $300 if you look hard enough, problem is I'm not looking for prices on tire sales (even if they are necessary for some to survive in this economy). We're going to have some deals of our own on existing inventories... but that's not apples to apples.

USA antitrust law (you seem to like to quote legalese... ) doesn't remotely enter the equation here. What a vendor buys tires for has nothing to do with it, nor does what they're selling them for at each market.

If a distributor gets his cost which is lower than a vendor's cost, both *should* (in my opinion) be selling them for the same price at the track. If a specific vendor can't sell a product for MSRP, then they have to discount... which is (at least from my experience) against or discouraged by company policies... or, at the very least frowned upon... but at the end of the day not everyone is contractually bound to maintain a set minimum price.

All I know is whether we were, are, or aren't.... we have consistently honored manufacturer's suggested track-side pricing and will continue to do so.

So, lets keep the debate above the boards now eh? Welcome to the tire business Graham.

[xsiliconkid]

Scottie I was keying off your point, “someone must have got a deal to be able to sell to end users cheaper".

My point on antitrust and in general antitrust itself has to do with the manufacture’s price to it's network - If you and I bought tires for resale and I sold 100,000 tires and you sold 1,000 our buy price is the same if we offer similar services.
The manufacturer or master distributor can't make "deals", also can't dictate end user pricing.
The end user price can be anywhere you or I wish to set it , despite what our "handlers wish us to sell them for"...... this way our customers are not locked into any price - hence that's why the manufacturer says MSRP....they Can’t fix retail or discount from retail pricing- that is antitrust.

Pricing policy violations do come under antitrust - example
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10109837-75.html

[xsiliconkid]

Graham, Dave:

I am comparing apples with apples. Sorry about the original mis-quote of $490 Dave.

2009 Michelin track side support price sheet:

Suggested Track Side Pricing:
120/17 Competition Slick Front: $185
180/17 Competition Slick Rear: $250
Set Price: $435

2009 Continental Price Sheet:

Suggested Track Side Pricing:
120/17 ContiRaceAttack Slick: $150.38
180/16 ContiRaceAttack Slick: $195.16
Set Price: $345.54

.

Scottie - As there is little knowledge to date (at least in the NE) on Continental race tires and how they stack up against the other known brands it will be interesting to see how they compare.
If they can compete against the top end race models of various manufactures, well done. it will be interesting to see as 2010 unfolds.

[scottieducati]

Graham, I'm telling you Pirelli has pricing for Race Vendor, and pricing for Track Day Vendor. They are not the same. *YES* if a former TD vendor is now a RACE provider, they get the same pricing as another RACE vendor. If someone is an exclusive track-day vendor, they are not providing the same service as being a race vendor. I realize you are new at this, but we are not talking about the same thing.

[Mr. Kurtz]

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Kurtz does racer net mean tires are more expensive for track day people??

Thanks Manny for asking that. No, "racer net price" is just the expression for what Pirelli allows us to sell the tire for. This price is for trackday participants and licensed racers, and any other rider(within our region) who orders from our website. That pricing is the same for 2010 as it was for 2009.