Airfence - Thoughts, facts, myths, fundraisers..

[Loun]

Someone posted a link to a donation site in the thread about Connors passing. It got me thinking and I didnt want to add it in that thread so im creating another one.

Now I dont race, I want to but for now I dont.. and I realize the value of these things. I know you all do as well. Ive corner worked 2 races and have seen a couple spots where I think they could use a little bit more fencing.. I started looking up information to learn about the fences and costs etc..

Here is an interesting forum that discusses the issues revolving around the fencing at one track:
Air Fence [Archive] - WMRRA Forums

Here is the link to the Donation site:
Welcome - RoadracingWorld Action Fund
Click contribute on the left side, for a $25 donation they even send you a tshirt. Im waiting on mine as we speak, I made the donation "In memory of Conner Lefrance" would be nice to see some other donations in his memory as well, as mentioned in one of the posts in that thread.

This seems like a VERY important thing, is there anything we can do to help make things safer? I wonder if we can get enough of us together to donate a section of fence and throw a big vinyl NESR sticker on it..

Any thoughts or am I just trying to be righteous while being overtired at 2am?

airfence.com

Peace!

-Lou

[Daytona440]

i've been thinking about this as well. my question about the RRW action fund is how much would that directly help Loudon? I've kind of been thinking we (the LRRS community & track day riders) should have our own fund to buy air fencing? I'd love to see a few sections of the Heavy duty airfence in T3 for next season...
airfence.com

[Jaynnus]

That list has not been updated since June 20th.

I have bookmarked it to donate soon.

[WebCrush]

RRW Airfence fund is used primarily at national events like AMA, WERA and ASRA. Loudon has seen it when the AMA and ASRA (when it was FUSA) came for national events.

All the airfence at Loudon came from Paolo's (former LRRS racer) airfence fund back in 2001 and the tracks personal purchases.

[Doc]

Maybe we need to start a new fund...

[Honclfibr]

Maybe we need to start a new fund...

The number of injuries due to those damned tire walls that could possibly have been prevented by airfence is ridiculous...I wouldn't mind paying an extra few bucks a race if it meant adding to the track's airfence budget...

[Honclfibr]

Speaking of Airfence and tire barriers, I came across an old internet post (not on this board) a few weeks ago and thought it was interesting. Discuss:

Loudon Crash Statistics
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 21:57:04 -0500
From: Jerry Wood <jwoodandco@mindspring.com>
To: race@micapeak.com
Subject: Re: Racing injury statistics
Message-ID: <367F0A80.41AE@mindspring.com>
Hi, Here are some stats for you to look over. I have raced for a very
long time and can tell you that of course racing is dangerous and you
can get hurt. The question becomes more dangerous than what? Certanly
riding fast on the street has to be considered more dangerous than the
ractrack. Some organizations have better records than others. Here are
some numbers worked up in the Loudon Roadracing Series.

HARD NUMBERS PROVE LOUDON¹S SAFETY RECORD

After reading about a few of the factory riders concerns about the
dangers of racing at Loudon and hearing about much ³Loudon bashing² on
the internet I thought it necessary to respond with some facts.

The new track was built in 1991 and has run an AMA National each
year, as well as regional events known as the Loudon Roadracing Series
(LRRS). The LRRS enjoys the reputation of being one of the most
heavily supported racing series in the country with entries averaging
over 800 each weekend (our record is 964 entries). We run three-day
events with school, practice and racing.

Some pro riders may question the relevance to club racing because
they go slower. The gap is smaller than you might think. At our recent
event the superbikes were timed at 1.14:8, the 600¹s at 1.16:5 and our
best 250 guy is now at 1.15:7. Just a tick off the national times and
I can assure you that club racers make excellent crash testers.

I have taught roadracing and worked in various capacities at Loudon
(both tracks) for the past 24 years and have served as the LRRS safety
director for the past 10 years. I also volunteer each year to help out
with the AMA pro events. I have learned quite a bit about racing
crashes over those years as I check out most relevant crashes for the
cause and cure.

Club racers crash often while learning and then usually have another
series of crashes as their confidence exceeds the available traction.
Anyone who has studied the sport will tell you ³racers crash most
often in slow corners² and with 14 turns in 1.6 miles Loudon has
plenty of those.

Our chief corner marshal, Sandy MacPherson, keeps accurate records at
all LRRS events, so I asked for and received a summary from 1992
through 1997 (6 seasons). During those 6 years we had 3,992 crashes at
Loudon. That sounds like a lot but you have to figure 800 entries
times 9 events = 7,200 each year times 6 years is 43,200 entries
during the period‹so just under 10% of our folks crash. Now the study
gets interesting, of those 3,992 crashes the ambulance was only called
to the scene 540 times. That means the other 3,452 riders got up and
retrieved their motorcycle. Now out of 540 that the ambulance came to
see, they took 54 to the hospital from the scene. That¹s 54 people
that had injuries obvious enough to say ³you are going to the hospital
now². Now I must say this number does not include people that went to
our track care center first and were sent for X-rays or treatment
later, but seriously folks, those numbers indicate that our safety
record is outstanding.

But we have walls‹lots of them! Looks scary, how can that be safe? I
have raced motorcycles for over 30 years all over the country and I
can tell you that no track is safer than it¹s ³operating system². That
includes barrier protection systems, corner worker training and
placement, medical response personnel and above all, group management
and attitudes.

At Loudon our ³software² is the best‹it has to be. We developed a
barrier protection system that includes 27² diameter soft Indy Car
slicks that are17² wide, bolted together in strips and stacks. These
are then placed in impact zones in various configurations. For
example, in the infamous turn 3, where everyone crashes and almost no
one is hurt, there are 2 rows of slicks‹the first 3¹ from the wall and
the second 3¹ from the first row so the crasher mushes the 27² thick
tire then pushes the row 3 feet then mushes the next row 3 more
feet‹and it works!

Why then did we not have this system where Thomas and Miguel hit in
turn one? Well, for the last 9 years there have been 2 crash zones in
turn one. The first from the initial braking area where brakes are
applied too fast and ³lock-up² and the second area down in the turn
where riders let off the brake and turn the motorcycle. The soft tire
strips covered the initial braking crash area and the second turn in
area sends the riders harmlessly across the grass‹like Doug Chandler.

Thomas Wilson locked his brakes well into the braking area and
witnesses stated that he could not seem to unlock them, indeed he left
a solid black skid mark for 375 feet and went into an area that is
normally used for run-off. No one wants any rider to hit an
unprotected wall for any reason, so I immediately went looking for
more tire strips to put into the new crash area. To my dismay I found
them all full of water, it had rained almost 14² in the days previous
to the event. We had 45 minutes remaining in the lunch break. I spoke
with Ron Barrick and he concurred that it would be a bad thing to fill
turn one with water for the races due to start at 1 p.m.. So we
planned to cover the entire area at the end of the day. Later that
afternoon it started raining during superbike qualifying. Rain flags
(oil) were displayed all around the track. Miguel bet the farm that it
was still dry enough to get pole‹it wasn¹t. Unfortunately it had to be
in the same spot in turn one where he found out. People think Brett
Metzger was injured by a wall but his broken helmet was covered with
rubber and red paint from his motorcycle‹no wall marks.

We all learned some valuable lessons this summer, and not just about
Loudon.
We can fix turn one with the system that we know works. We can also
make other significant improvements to the layout. And, perhaps, we
should look at all event locations to make sure we do our best. How
many tracks do we race at where the medical response team is not
trained in helmet removal? This can be a life or death deal.

Loudon has an excellent safety record despite it¹s looks. We haven¹t
raced all those races with all those riders for nine years on luck.
Loudon has other assets, as well. A 75 year history now with 39,000
spectators, plus TV coverage. It is an important market and there is
not another facility in the Northeast that can support a national.
Those folks purchase motorcycles and products. The Bahre family took
the old event with 15,000 to 18,000 mostly rowdy spectators and turned
it into a family event with double the crowd and still growing. They
have experience with big racing and they believe motorcycle racing is
a great product that is grossly undersold. They have also made a
commitment to make the racing as safe as possible.

I know racing a superbike on a tight course is physically demanding
and set up and strategy is critical but we can¹t wimp out and destroy
what we have built.

It is not fair to blame the AMA when things go wrong. The American
Motorcyclists Association is us‹the motorcyclists. We all know that
supercross has enjoyed great success and it is very apparent that high
visibility stadium-type tracks draw spectators. We can make them safe,
we just have to work together in a positive manner.

Jerry Wood

[RyanNicholson]

that letter from jerry is really well written, and truly does point out how well the safety system works at NHIS. (given what we have for a layout)

kinda makes you wonder why AMA ended up leaving after all

[Crash Dummy Denno]

that letter from jerry is really well written, and truly does point out how well the safety system works at NHIS. (given what we have for a layout)

kinda makes you wonder why AMA ended up leaving after all

rain

[RyanNicholson]

rain

well yea, but i thought it had a lot to do w/ general safety

[Crash Dummy Denno]

well yea, but i thought it had a lot to do w/ general safety

sketchy weather and AMA cancelling races due to rain - loudon wanted them to run the races or not come at all

standoff = no more ama

at least thats the quick and dirty version i got

[Paul_E_D]

You can donate directly to LRRS and they will buy and replace airfence. It's not as simple as putting it everywhere, so don't expect that to happen...

[Loun]

Im all for doing whatever legwork I can to help figure something out for a fund up here. I talked to a couple racers today and at last one said he would be all for a opt in donation on the bottom of the race sheet for $10. We also talked about it and although I don稚 know the track all that well I think the airfence needs to be extended coming out of 2 at least 1 length, I also think they need to look at the exit of 12. Exit 3 would be nice since it wouldn稚 take a lot of fence just do from the entry to the apex, typically if you make it at least that far you are typically ok or you will be eating dirt anyhow.

Id be up for donating another $25 if we can get something specifically for Loudon, possibly even set up a donation form for corner workers too, maybe more racers will spend a morning corner working and let the money they would have made go towards that fund.

I think pricing said it was about $100 a foot so $3000 for a 30ft section, 1 extra section in 2, 2 sections in 3 would be $9k. Vinyl ads on the fence for sponsoring? Then itç—´ the storage issue that is the problem I guess, so that would need to be figured out too. Hmm.. Whatcha got?

[s a x m a n]

i'm all for more airfence ... BUT the question is, when was the last injury at loudon from hitting bare wall (or tires?)

[Loun]

last race weekend guy airlifted from hitting tired in turn 1.. not someplace i would put a fence but just answering your question

[Daytona440]

i'm all for more airfence ... BUT the question is, when was the last injury at loudon from hitting bare wall (or tires?)

Honest question Jamie. You're accident in T3 was one of the HARDest impacts to the tire wall most people have seen in recent years. do you think airfence would have made a difference? Your angle of impact made it tough to judge, as you didn't slide into the wall but actually were catapulted on top of the tires...

Is the airfence taller than the current tire barriers?

[s a x m a n]

last race weekend guy airlifted from hitting tired in turn 1.. not someplace i would put a fence but just answering your question

from my understanding it wasn't the tires that hurt him it was the bike that crashed into him that caused the injuries

the air fence is so light, that its not going to do any good being free standing ... so turn 1 would be useless unless against the wall ... the tires are there because they have weight to them and can help slow you down before making it to the wall since turn 1 is such a fast corner

[s a x m a n]

Honest question Jamie. You're accident in T3 was one of the HARDest impacts to the tire wall most people have seen in recent years. do you think airfence would have made a difference? Your angle of impact made it tough to judge, as you didn't slide into the wall but actually were catapulted on top of the tires...

Is the airfence taller than the current tire barriers?

from my understanding of the accident my bike hit me, so no matter what I went into tires or air fence, I would have still gotten hurt from the 400lb bike hitting me


the tires are softer than you think ... (=

[s a x m a n]

don't get me wrong ... the more airfence the better for sure ... but I think people get this false sense of security ... road racing is dangerous and you are accepting the risks .. no amount of airfence or track surface improvements are going to remove that risk

[Loun]

As mentioned in my post, im not saying to use the fence in 1 in fact the places I proposed were extending the exit of 2 and the entry to 3. I think they should have some at the exit of 12 as well since that starts to get a high speed area where people can get off hard. I saw a bike get shortered a bit last race in 12 from hard contact to the wall.

It’s a tough call, you can just saw well so and so had a hard hit in 3 would a fence have helped him where he was up so high? Maybe not… would a fence have helped the guy that flew out of 6 and over the jersey barriers?.. Probably not last race weekend I picked someone up from the apex of 10 that sure was happy they were there, his motard dissapeared under the fence and he was wrapped up in it.. The race prior I watched someone smack the turn 2 fence so hard that I felt the thud from turn 1. Its not a matter of, would it have helped in prior accidents, its does it have the potential to avoid injury in future ones. That’s not to say put it everywhere.. It’s a calculated risk thing, exit of 2 is risky and that wall comes up quick, turn 3… too many people fighting for position and the outside bike gets stood up and off. Turn 12, on exit and acceleration, tire brakes lose and rider high sides, if I was a racer and again unfortunately im not (I want to soon) id rather the opportunity to aim for something soft(er) than concrete.

Surely the argument isnt would an airfence reduce injury if someone hit that vs a tire barrier or wall? Is it?

[Doc]

How about some medical education for the corner workers?

I'll even teach it.

[13]

Screw the airfence, lets replace it all with barbed wire!!!

[Loun]

medical education for corner workers would be a completely different thing and to be honest id rather have corner workers be trained to leave the rider alone and let the medical personnel do their job. All they should be doing is assessing the scene, verifying that the rider is ok and can or cannot move or should / should not move thats all they should be doing, maintaining the safety of the rider and the other riders on the track. That is enough to do. Again though that should be another thread because its a large topic that will get into bashing the ambulance crews and so on as well.

[RyanNicholson]

i think what they have set up as far as corner working and medical staff (and whatever system they use to do their respective jobs) is top notch. I've heard many people say this as well (as compared to other tracks around the country).

as far as airfences and stuff go, i think it'd be great to have more....and find a way to fund it

[Doc]

I meant something like this... From the US Marshalls site

First Aid
If you have training in this area, feel free to use what you have learned. If you do not, then let common sense be your guide.

Stay with an injured person until help arrives, continue to talk even if the person appears unconscious and check for breathing and bleeding.

Ask simple questions: "What's your name? What day is it? Can you move your toes?"

Do not let a combative rider back out into traffic.

Do not hesitate to call for an ambulance if there is any question about the condition of the rider!

NEVER MOVE AN UNCONSCIOUS RIDER OR ONE WHO CANNOT MOVE HIMSELF!

Never remove a helmet unless you have received proper instruction!