Brake fade!!!!! WTF, over.

[BMFR6]

So i was (if I recall correctly) running Galfer pads. They worked all right, but seemed a bit too progressive for me, lacking initial bite. I ran those pads (same set) for about a season and a half. Just replaced them last weekend. Looked for something more aggressive at initial bite and everyone said Vesrah RJL. Bought them, installed them.... and the problems began.

When I installed them I also replaced the pistons and seals on my calipers. Bled them and everything seemed well. FYI, I like next to nothing for pull on my brake lever before the pads start to bite. Went out for first practice last weekend and bedded in the pads, worked fine. In total I had run two practices, one GT and two sprint races. By the end of the day I had a ton of pull on my lever.

I figured there was some air in the system so yesterday I got around to bleeding them again. Bled, and bled, and bled..... couldn't get the feel I like. Figured the master cylinder was garbage. Had a factory new master cylinder on stand-by, installed it. Bled the brakes enough to make them adequate for a track day (CSS) today, didn't get them as hard as I like but close. Ran about 5 sessions at about 15-20 minutes a piece, for the most part it was all pretty light breaking with the exception of one session where I was probably running 27's for about 15 minutes. The pull gets progressivley worse cutting my last session short because I can't stand it.

WTF is going on? Nothing seems to be leaking, my fluid level remains unchanged and nothing (calipers to master cylinder) is wet after any sessions. I know the Vesrah pads are soft but there is still a ton of meat on mine so I wouldn't think its pad wear. If I was to go on the long side of things I would say the brake lines are 2 years old, that may be a stretch. So what can it be?

[Indy92]

So i was (if I recall correctly) running Galfer pads. They worked all right, but seemed a bit too progressive for me, lacking initial bite. I ran those pads (same set) for about a season and a half. Just replaced them last weekend. Looked for something more aggressive at initial bite and everyone said Vesrah RJL. Bought them, installed them.... and the problems began.

When I installed them I also replaced the pistons and seals on my calipers. Bled them and everything seemed well. FYI, I like next to nothing for pull on my brake lever before the pads start to bite. Went out for first practice last weekend and bedded in the pads, worked fine. In total I had run two practices, one GT and two sprint races. By the end of the day I had a ton of pull on my lever.

I figured there was some air in the system so yesterday I got around to bleeding them again. Bled, and bled, and bled..... couldn't get the feel I like. Figured the master cylinder was garbage. Had a factory new master cylinder on stand-by, installed it. Bled the brakes enough to make them adequate for a track day (CSS) today, didn't get them as hard as I like but close. Ran about 5 sessions at about 15-20 minutes a piece, for the most part it was all pretty light breaking with the exception of one session where I was probably running 27's for about 15 minutes. The pull gets progressivley worse cutting my last session short because I can't stand it.

WTF is going on? Nothing seems to be leaking, my fluid level remains unchanged and nothing (calipers to master cylinder) is wet after any sessions. I know the Vesrah pads are soft but there is still a ton of meat on mine so I wouldn't think its pad wear. If I was to go on the long side of things I would say the brake lines are 2 years old, that may be a stretch. So what can it be?

I think you've still got some air in there. Do you use something like a Mighty Vac to bleed?

[butcher bergs]

Have you considered warped discs?

My rear disc is warped and it promotes a fading-brake feel.

How do you feel about EBC HH?

[Paul_E_D]

Reverse bleed the brakes. Or, take the system off the bike and hang it straight to bleed. After all those changes, there's definitely still air in there. Also try the zip tie trick over night.

Also, learn to brake with the lever deeper in it's travel. There is much finer control and feel available as the lever gets closer to the bar IMO.

[s a x m a n]

I bought a banjo for the MC that had a bleeder on it ... great time saver!!

[BMFR6]

Reverse bleed the brakes. Or, take the system off the bike and hang it straight to bleed. After all those changes, there's definitely still air in there. Also try the zip tie trick over night.

Also, learn to brake with the lever deeper in it's travel. There is much finer control and feel available as the lever gets closer to the bar IMO.

reverse bleed?care to elaborate? are you saying to build up pressure in the system and crack the banjo bolt at the MC therefore bleeding at the top of the system?

I can deal with some travel in the lever but it will get to the point of hitting my fingers that remain on the throttle. Not good.

[Degsy]

What brake fluid are you using? if you have boiled it just once, it is shot.

derek

[Paul_E_D]

Reverse bleeding is forcing the fluid UP from the caliper. I think there's a way to do it with the mighty-vac, but I've never tried it.

[SSearchVT]

What brake fluid are you using? if you have boiled it just once, it is shot.

derek

Or - Did you mix DOT4 with DOT5, or use fluid from an open container?

[BMFR6]

always been Dot 4, always a sealed container. Was Valvoline before, this time it was Prestone.

[Paul_E_D]

Go back to the pads that worked?

[BMFR6]

Think I am going to take your previous suggestions and go back to the bleeding drawing board. It has to be air in the system. I don't imagine I amthe only person at the track using Vesrah pads and I don't see people bleeding their brakes mid-day so I guessing its not the pads. Its air due to all the other crap I did.

[SSearchVT]

If you aren't already - have someone help you bleed the brakes. The spare hands on the lever with only one task will get the last of the air out. Good Luck...

[s a x m a n]

get the motul dot 4 race fluid ... much higher boiling point

[Crash Dummy Denno]

im going to zip-tie my brakes tonight

[Degsy]

What kind of bike is it and what kind of master cylinder?

[BMFR6]

It's a 199 SV650 but the new master cylinder is factory off a 04 SV650. manufactured by Nissin.

[Daytona440]

If you aren't already - have someone help you bleed the brakes. The spare hands on the lever with only one task will get the last of the air out. Good Luck...

I can come over tomorrow Mark, if you want some help

[RyanNicholson]

y'know i kinda had the same issue my 2nd weekend after switching to the vesrah pads. My brakes still worked fine, but like you said the lever still pulled in farther than i like.