Gauging interest in a new class

[csmutty]

Ugly: Yes
Beat up: perhaps, but they're racebikes, and you cant kill them.
Outdated: So are the 250s, except for the brandy new ones.
Drag hard parts: Once I switched to rear sets and improved body position I never dragged again (granted, I only did 26s on that bike)
Ugly: Yes

you can kill them ask ddk.
They drag exhaust at pace.
The new ones would be the only competitive ones, unless you convert the older gen to 17" rims.

[SVRACER01]

id rather see a spec class that is owned and operated by LRRS. they get 20 of the same motorcycle (doesnt really matter what they are...monsters?) and race prep them with suspension, tires, bodywork and such. and to race you pay an entry fee and a crash deposit and get whatever bike they give you. everyone is on the same equipment.... guaranteed. seal up the motors and even at the end of the race day the bike has to go into a locked garage. you could even pay for the season and get the same bike every week. you can make suspension changes, tire press changes but really that would be about it.
cost could easily be offset with sponsors (ex: tire manufacturer, suspension, brakes, body work bike maker/dealer)
obviously the entry costs would be higher to pay for bike maint and series upkeep, but that would truly be a cheap way to get into racing

[csmutty]

id rather see a spec class that is owned and operated by LRRS. they get 20 of the same motorcycle (doesnt really matter what they are...monsters?) and race prep them with suspension, tires, bodywork and such. and to race you pay an entry fee and a crash deposit and get whatever bike they give you. everyone is on the same equipment.... guaranteed. seal up the motors and even at the end of the race day the bike has to go into a locked garage. you could even pay for the season and get the same bike every week. you can make suspension changes, tire press changes but really that would be about it.
cost could easily be offset with sponsors (ex: tire manufacturer, suspension, brakes, body work bike maker/dealer)
obviously the entry costs would be higher to pay for bike maint and series upkeep, but that would truly be a cheap way to get into racing

What about springs? It would suck to have to race an under or over sprung bike. Plus if I had a mechanical id be pissed.

[a13x]

id rather see a spec class that is owned and operated by LRRS. they get 20 of the same motorcycle (doesnt really matter what they are...monsters?) and race prep them with suspension, tires, bodywork and such. and to race you pay an entry fee and a crash deposit and get whatever bike they give you. everyone is on the same equipment.... guaranteed. seal up the motors and even at the end of the race day the bike has to go into a locked garage. you could even pay for the season and get the same bike every week. you can make suspension changes, tire press changes but really that would be about it.
cost could easily be offset with sponsors (ex: tire manufacturer, suspension, brakes, body work bike maker/dealer)
obviously the entry costs would be higher to pay for bike maint and series upkeep, but that would truly be a cheap way to get into racing

While you are at it I'd like a gold-plated toilet.

[Kurlon]

id rather see a spec class that is owned and operated by LRRS. they get 20 of the same motorcycle (doesnt really matter what they are...monsters?) and race prep them with suspension, tires, bodywork and such. and to race you pay an entry fee and a crash deposit and get whatever bike they give you. everyone is on the same equipment.... guaranteed. seal up the motors and even at the end of the race day the bike has to go into a locked garage. you could even pay for the season and get the same bike every week. you can make suspension changes, tire press changes but really that would be about it.
cost could easily be offset with sponsors (ex: tire manufacturer, suspension, brakes, body work bike maker/dealer)
obviously the entry costs would be higher to pay for bike maint and series upkeep, but that would truly be a cheap way to get into racing

Make it a claiming rule class instead. $1k buys any bike on the grid when presented with a license and non-refundable pre-entry fees to the class for the rest of the season. (So you can't just buy it to get it off the grid, if you're buying, you're racing.)

[Doc]

While you are at it I'd like a gold-plated toilet.

With wings!!

I think a 250 class would be less intimidating as well. Just a thought.

Loudon is a pretty tight, non horsepower track, getting smaller bikes to fill grids is a good thing.

If the Ex500 series is dwindiling Richie, do you have any idea as to why?

[Pittenger5]

If the Ex500 series is dwindiling Richie, do you have any idea as to why?

Not sure, thats one of the questions I have to the 30 people that are all about 250 racing in this thread.
I left EX500s because it became too frustrating to have one competitive class, and just completely out gunned in the 3 other races I entered. Would be the same deal with the 250s in this case.

[Doc]

I left EX500s because it became too frustrating to have one competitive class, and just completely out gunned in the 3 other races I entered. Would be the same deal with the 250s in this case.

Good point and food for thought.

"More bang for your buck" might be a good way to look at this. A new rider is going to want to be able to ride in a couple races and be competative at least. One race on a 250 doesn't look as good as 3 on an SV...

[Kurlon]

You want lots of potential classes to be competitive in? Motard.

Note, not cheap racing but hey, you have a fighting chance in a crapton of CCS/LRRS classes.

[Mr. Kurtz]

I think Richie nailed what I'm getting at. A couple people have said "yeah, I'd get into racing if that brand new cheap class started up," but why then are those people not overflowing the Ptwins grids?

[JettaJayGLS]

One race just wouldn't be enough for me and I can't afford to run two bikes.

[Kurlon]

I think Richie nailed what I'm getting at. A couple people have said "yeah, I'd get into racing if that brand new cheap class started up," but why then are those people not overflowing the Ptwins grids?

They may not want to race EX500s? Different machines attract different people. Using me as an example, I love me a nice, light V-Twin, yet the Hawk does absolutely nothing for me. It's a competitive machine, lots of parts and support out there for it, but it doesn't turn my gears so I don't own one. The 250s seem to be exciting a bunch of people, right now in LRRS there isn't a place where they can be competitive so they aren't showing up.

[SVRACER01]

What about springs? It would suck to have to race an under or over sprung bike. Plus if I had a mechanical id be pissed.

what about them? suspension would be upgraded and fully adjustable. youre not pissed when you have a mechanical on your bike?

While you are at it I'd like a gold-plated toilet.

gold plated? not solid?

i guess im looking for something along the lines of the XR series, but with a F1 boston "arrive and drive" twist. everyone is on equal equipment..... like the IROC series. i think its completely doable

[hot karl]

If they make a 250 class then I'm going to go out the same day and get the new-gen suspension bits and wheels and have the most dominant 250 out there.

"If you build it, they will come".

So, yes, I'd love to race my 250!

[sveesix]

I would be all for this, and this would probably get me racing within the next year or two. I have been thinking about something like the new 300 for a while now as a commuter bike, and if it could double as a track monster, all the better. I think it would be a great way for people to get on the track, and get into racing. To those of you against the idea, what do you have to lose?

[backinthesaddle]

Section on ninjette forum devoted to 250s at the track.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30

[backinthesaddle]

id rather see a spec class that is owned and operated by LRRS. they get 20 of the same motorcycle (doesnt really matter what they are...monsters?) and race prep them with suspension, tires, bodywork and such. and to race you pay an entry fee and a crash deposit and get whatever bike they give you. everyone is on the same equipment.... guaranteed. seal up the motors and even at the end of the race day the bike has to go into a locked garage. you could even pay for the season and get the same bike every week. you can make suspension changes, tire press changes but really that would be about it.
cost could easily be offset with sponsors (ex: tire manufacturer, suspension, brakes, body work bike maker/dealer)
obviously the entry costs would be higher to pay for bike maint and series upkeep, but that would truly be a cheap way to get into racing

There was a guy on the west coast who rented race prepped ninja 250s and gave track side support. He sold the biz but keeps the web site up. Maybe still some worthwhile info there.

http://www.racebikerentals.com/

[Woodcraft]

Keep the banter going....I don't have a stake in this, as I will not be buying a 250 to race in this class. But, if it makes sense, then it may work. My thought on an extra class, for what it's worth, is that if we get enough of these bikes - say at least a dozen between EX and AM, then you could run an Ultra GTL together with GTL..... thoughts?

[b0xmonkey]

I started racing on an EX, it was a blast in novice because I could compete for the win in P-Twins, GTL, LWSS, etc. Then the move to Am. and I can win P-Twins but best I could do in anything else was a top ten, that got old real quick, therefore the switch to the SV650. Not fun only competing for the win in one class. The 250's sound like a ton of fun if the entries are there, but again to own and maintain a bike to compete in 7 races a year? Ultra GTL makes it sound more interesting, depending what you are racing against....I'll be staying tuned!

[csmutty]

Eric...could a multi-heat class be developed for the 250 class? So they could run 2-3 sprints/gt races per weekend. And all results would go towards one championship/class?

what about them? suspension would be upgraded and fully adjustable. youre not pissed when you have a mechanical on your bike?

gold plated? not solid?

i guess im looking for something along the lines of the XR series, but with a F1 boston "arrive and drive" twist. everyone is on equal equipment..... like the IROC series. i think its completely doable

First off...you dont race. Would you if this even happened?
Also...kb and I both have upgraded suspension. I cant ride his bike for crap and he cant ride mine.

[SVRACER01]

Wirelessly posted (HTC EVO "DROID" )

So because I'm not an active racer at the moment I can't have an opinion?
If such a series existed, then yes is be VERY interested in running in it.
So what you're saying is you can't ride a motorcycle competitively unless its properly set up? I'm sorry to hear that.
Have either of you tried to ride the others after fiddling with the suspension? Most likely not.
I'm not going to argue minor details with you. Especially ones that can be easily overcome like suspension set ups.

[csmutty]

Wirelessly posted (HTC EVO "DROID" )

So because I'm not an active racer at the moment I can't have an opinion?
If such a series existed, then yes is be VERY interested in running in it.
So what you're saying is you can't ride a motorcycle competitively unless its properly set up? I'm sorry to hear that.
Have either of you tried to ride the others after fiddling with the suspension? Most likely not.
I'm not going to argue minor details with you. Especially ones that can be easily overcome like suspension set ups.

It is not enjoyable to ride a bike with the wrong spring rate. Where's PK to weigh in on this when you need him?

I see no point in renting a bike that someone else works on, maintains, and upgrades. I'd much rather maintain and upgrade it myself and for me.

[SVRACER01]

so the bike you rode in the endurance race was maintained by you and set up for you?
people rent penguin bikes and race them without issue
at this point its all a pipe dream so im not even sure why youre getting your panties all in a twist over it. all the "issues" you have with the idea are all minuscule problems that can easily be worked out.

maintenance- there really isnt any. the bike is used for practice and 1 race, so it needs what? an oil change or 2....maybe. unless the bike is crashed i dont see a maintenance concern

suspension- everybody gets a baseline suspension. if you commit to the whole season and pay up front to have the same bike all season then a spring change could be done. but im still confused as to why you are so concerned about suspension since the spring on a standard set up shock/fork is probably perfect for your weight.

if by some act of god this comes to fruition then that would obviously be a topic of discussion then. i was spitballing an idea and all the reasons you have for why it wouldnt work all sound personal. i can fix that.....if it happens then dont race in that class. problem solved.

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted

I see both sides of this. If I rented a bike or a race weekend I would go over every nut and bolt, paying particular attention to brakes, wheels, chain etc.

[csmutty]

so the bike you rode in the endurance race was maintained by you and set up for you?
people rent penguin bikes and race them without issue
at this point its all a pipe dream so im not even sure why youre getting your panties all in a twist over it. all the "issues" you have with the idea are all minuscule problems that can easily be worked out.

maintenance- there really isnt any. the bike is used for practice and 1 race, so it needs what? an oil change or 2....maybe. unless the bike is crashed i dont see a maintenance concern

suspension- everybody gets a baseline suspension. if you commit to the whole season and pay up front to have the same bike all season then a spring change could be done. but im still confused as to why you are so concerned about suspension since the spring on a standard set up shock/fork is probably perfect for your weight.

if by some act of god this comes to fruition then that would obviously be a topic of discussion then. i was spitballing an idea and all the reasons you have for why it wouldnt work all sound personal. i can fix that.....if it happens then dont race in that class. problem solved.

The endurance race is a one time race with no reward in which there is no championship. And the competition is much more lax.

And what degs said. I would only want myself to blame, especially since renting one of those bikes wouldcost a decent amount of money, since you would be paying someone else to maintain it. Cheap racing wouldnt include paying soneone else for a rental and maintenance. Id rather invest my money in my own machine and save money by maintaining it myself. Its like buying a house vs renting. If you are going to stay in the area it makes more sense to buy.