Welcome to NESR! Most features of this site require registration, including replying to threads, sending private messages, starting new threads, and uploading files. Click here to register.

Results 1 to 11 of 11

Race Weekend #5 - #143 Fails to Race

  1. #1
    Lifer Fitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New Boston, NH
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,383

    Race Weekend #5 - #143 Fails to Race

    Bittersweet weekend.

    Arrived Friday early and safety wired a few things. First session went well and I was running the same pace as the weekend prior (1.26's). I had dropped the front end of the bike another 5mm over the break to combat the larger circumference of the Dunlop slicks and it seemed to help turn in. Session two went well up until the last lap when the bike started stumbling coming out of 2. I nursed it around and pitted in. Power seemed to be down >50% until I got back to cold pit. Idled fine with both cylinders firing. Tried to go back out but as soon as I put the throttle to her coming out of T2 she fell flat on her face again. Thought I saw evidence of arcing on the front coil wire so I wrapped it in duct tape. Bike started, idled and ran fine around the pits. Went out for session three. First lap felt great (1.28). Coming out of T2 on the second lap the bike hesitated. By the time I had exited T3 it was again down 50%. Weird. Pitted in. Swapped out the front coil, plug wire, plug cap and both spark plugs. The plugs that came out were almond in color but the front showed evidence of some corrosion; almost as if it hadn't been tightened fully. Skipped the 4th session working on the bike. Mike Martire stopped by and we bounced the bike a bit. Front seemed planted. Rear needed a bit more rebound.

    First session Saturday I had two new plugs, two new coils, all new wires and all new caps. I had driven the bike around substantially the night before and everything seemed great. Lap 1 on rain tires the bike again stutters coming into 3. By the time I hit T4 I was down 50% on power. WTF. Back to the pits, pull the plugs and they're both white. After consulting with countless people, I check the diaphragm on the tank (ok) and a few vacuum lines. Because both cylinders showed lean, we didn't think it had anything to do with a main jet in one cylinder or the other. I had placed a bit too much grease on the threads for the gas cap and it had blocked the ball bearings. We thought that maybe under wide open throttle a vacuum was being created inside the tank restricting the flow of fuel. I pulled the cap and mount and cleaned all the components and reassembled. Did a continuity check on all the wires going to the coils from the ECU shaking and moving the harness but didn't find any issues. Extensive testing ensued riding the bike all over the place. Idles great. Accelerates great. Throttle response is awesome. Maybe I figured this out?

    Track dries out so I swap back to slicks. Race 6 I plug in the warmers. Race 8 I start to get dressed and rip the zipper off of one of my Sidi boots. Not just the tab.. the entire zipper. Thank god for Miles at Street and Comp... ~10 minutes later, new Sidi's on the feet. Race 10 arrives. 12 people on grid and I have a wicked case of the nerves. How's the bike going to run? Should I try for the holeshot or let someone lead me around and then try for a late pass? I'm about 2 seconds behind the fastest rider in times so maybe try to follow them? Warm up lap begins and I'm up into third coming in T1. Bike feels great. Awesome throttle response. Suspension feels planted. Flop for 2, roll on throttle.. wait.. did it hiccup? Flop for three back on the throttle and I'm down 50% on power. I had unenthusiastically tightened the gas cap back in the pits.. so I easily spun it off another 180 degrees to make sure it wasn't a vacuum build up in the tank. No change. I hold her to the boards simply trying to not get run over with my left hand up. Pit in running on one cylinder all the way back to the garage. DNS. For the first time in two days, restarting her yields only one cylinder.

    Didn't bother troubleshooting just packed it in and came home. I'll pull it apart later in the week. Still trying to figure out which cylinder is the problem child and then go from there. Float bowls are next as well as a check on the internal tank screen. It's going to be hard to troubleshoot as it seems to require a good amount of wide open throttle to get the issue to occur. Idling, revving it in neutral, riding around normally don't seem to produce the issue. Definitely not heat related. Suggestions?

    Huge thanks for all those who helped troubleshoot (Zip Tie Alley, the Tansey's, Todd Babcock, Bob, Mike, Neal, etc) and Mike from GMD for adjusting my rebound. I'll let you know how it turns out.

    Fitz

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by Fitz; 07-19-09 at 07:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    western, MA
    Age
    53
    Posts
    15,000

    Re: Race Weekend #5 - #143 Fails to Race

    Look in the stator. I've seen EXs throw magnets causing lots of missing etc.

    Also, you have have spun a crank bearing, twisted the crank, or bent a valve. Good luck.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Paul_E_D


  3. #3
    Lifer Fitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New Boston, NH
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,383

    Re: Race Weekend #5 - #143 Fails to Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Look in the stator. I've seen EXs throw magnets causing lots of missing etc.

    Also, you have have spun a crank bearing, twisted the crank, or bent a valve. Good luck.
    If the stator was the issue, would I be low on voltage? Voltage appears to be holding steady via the Starlane.

    I entertained the motor option.. but it doesn't make sense that it runs well and then craps out one lap later. Started her today, both cylinders fired and the rip around the block was uneventful.

    Fitz

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  4. #4
    Just Registered The Crashing Tomato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Around the corner
    Age
    51
    Posts
    2,068

    Re: Race Weekend #5 - #143 Fails to Race

    you said you checked the diaphragm in the petcock but .... is there a screen in the tank?

    Last season Gino's (nt650gt HAWK) was acting up in exactly same way .... He pulled the carb cleaned them between practice sessions only to have the same problem during second practice. He was baffled as it ran FINE in the pits. He and I tore the thing down again and cleaned carbs again ..... then popped and he checked the petcock .... fine .... then he shook the tankand the gas suddenly turned nasty brown when looking thru the fill cap. I gave him a hand shaking the tank clean of this NASTY RUSTY DIRTY sludge if there is a cylindrical screen that sticks up into your tank but if you have all that sludge settled in the tank and druing warm up lap ... then flop the bike thru 1, 1a, 2 you will likely shake that shit up onto the screen and loose fuel delivery ..... this entirely the possibility especially if all your electrical has checked out.

    do you have a way to test the electrical system under load? .... just having the bike check out at idle may not be the right conditions needed. like the post above .... the stator might work fine at idle but put some demand on the system and the output might not be enough to power both coils properly

    good luck

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by The Crashing Tomato; 07-20-09 at 07:25 AM.
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Originally Posted by hammadown .....
    The rule is:
    If even Zip Tie Alley says, "no you shouldn't use a zip tie on that" you REALLLLLLY shouldn't use a zip tie on that! lol

  5. #5
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    western, MA
    Age
    53
    Posts
    15,000

    Re: Race Weekend #5 - #143 Fails to Race

    THe problems I mentioned may not show up til the bike is under heavy load. You can't assume anything is fine from a spin around the block. I gave you all the fail points for the EX. Do not waste time. Check ALL the areas I mentioned starting with the stator. I'd also pursue the tank/petcock issues as well.

    When you replace the coils did you cut back the wiring and put fresh connectors on? Those are highly suspect as well.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Paul_E_D


  6. #6
    Just Registered The Crashing Tomato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Around the corner
    Age
    51
    Posts
    2,068

    Re: Race Weekend #5 - #143 Fails to Race

    ummmm Paul

    great minds doooo think alike.

    they just may not read each others posts

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Originally Posted by hammadown .....
    The rule is:
    If even Zip Tie Alley says, "no you shouldn't use a zip tie on that" you REALLLLLLY shouldn't use a zip tie on that! lol

  7. #7
    Perpetual Amateur CEO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    7,130

    Re: Race Weekend #5 - #143 Fails to Race

    I didn't know you were having all that trouble Fitz. Come to think of it you did look a little bummed. Sorry to hear man

    Now we have lots of time to get ready for the next weekend though...

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Zip-Tie Alley Racing
    LRRS/CCS #103
    PPS | Dunlop | Boston Moto | Woodcraft & Armour Bodies | 35 Motorsports | Pit Bull | K&N

  8. #8
    Lifer Fitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New Boston, NH
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,383

    Re: Race Weekend #5 - #143 Fails to Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    THe problems I mentioned may not show up til the bike is under heavy load. You can't assume anything is fine from a spin around the block. I gave you all the fail points for the EX. Do not waste time. Check ALL the areas I mentioned starting with the stator. I'd also pursue the tank/petcock issues as well.

    When you replace the coils did you cut back the wiring and put fresh connectors on? Those are highly suspect as well.
    I'm not going to assume anything. Hell you could tell me that I need to check that my brake rotor is rotating parallel to my crank revolution and I'd be getting out the dial indicator. I'm still really new to the motorcycle thing and any questions I ask really aren't meant to discount your advice but to simply understand the relationships between all the different components.

    I'm going to pull the plugs tonight to see if I can figure out which cylinder is missing. From there I'll pull the tank, drain it and check the screen, etc. I'll also be replacing any vacuum lines going to the diaphragm, fuel pump etc.. also on the list is stator, carb bowls, etc etc....

    Will keep you posted. Thanks all for the help.

    Fitz

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  9. #9
    Lifer Fitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New Boston, NH
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,383

    Re: Race Weekend #5 - #143 Fails to Race

    Pulled the tank and drained it using a vac pump on the diaphragm. Drained it into a white bucket. No sediment and no issues. Pulled the screen (was clean). Shook the tank a bit and noted a bolt rattling around. Appears to be one of the gas tank cap bolts (Vortex). Not sure where it came from as there are four identical ones on the tank already. Maybe previous owner? Since the screen protrudes into the gas tank I doubt the bolt would clog or restrict the flow in any way. I just need to find a way to get it out now.
    Pulled the float bowls. they were clean. Some slight residue (reddish?) in the corners of the rear carb. Jets appeared to be clean. Main jets were 0.140's which may be a bit too small based on everything I've read for an SV with a full exhaust, tank risers and de-snorkeled @ sea level.
    Haven't had a chance to check the stator yet but think I may just throw her back together and bring her to Souhegan Valley Motorsports. Heading there tonight and I'm sure it will come up in conversation. As I pointed out I'm new to the motorcycle thing and would rather have someone equipped with the knowledge and tools to do the job right to troubleshoot it verses me just stumbling around.

    Fitz

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  10. #10
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Waterboro ME
    Age
    46
    Posts
    13,518

    Re: Race Weekend #5 - #143 Fails to Race

    RE the bolt in the tank, if you pop the cap assembly off, can you rattle it loose with the tank upside down? Other option, get a magnet on a flex wand and go fishing.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  11. #11
    Lifer Fitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New Boston, NH
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,383

    Re: Race Weekend #5 - #143 Fails to Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    RE the bolt in the tank, if you pop the cap assembly off, can you rattle it loose with the tank upside down? Other option, get a magnet on a flex wand and go fishing.
    Tried that with no luck. There's a ridge on the fill port which prevented the screw from coming out. So I flipped the tank upside down and removed the sender and the screen. Rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle... hmm nothing.. magnet up next. Aluminum screw. Sonofa.... rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle ... PLINK! Niiiiiiiiiice.

    Buttoned everything back up and handed her off to the experts at Souhegan Valley this afternoon. While she's there Scott's going to add some Spears components and introduce her to the dyno for a tune.

    I'm indebted to Souhegan lately something fierce...

    Fitz

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 05-12-09, 12:26 PM
  2. My track weekend (not really race weekend)
    By xxdcmast in forum Pit Area
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-15-06, 09:45 AM
  3. Last Race weekend
    By SEVENSGT in forum Rides & Events
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-21-03, 09:37 AM
  4. Race weekend
    By Degsy in forum Pit Area
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-20-03, 06:36 AM
  5. Race weekend
    By Degsy in forum Pit Area
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-11-03, 12:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •