Rain Tire necessity/opinions wanted

[trackdog]

I ran a search in this forum under "Rain Tires' and have read the posts. I know from experince over the years that NHIS has frequent rain events.

But in regards to getting started racing, how important or necessary is having spare wheels with rains if you will be running DOT's?
Consider that I have NO plans on chasing a Championship starting out, but would not be freightened off by rain, and would still run a race. I would just concentrate on FINISHING a rain event, not winning, unless of course I had the a good chance

But there is a list of acouterments needed to be filled for someone getting started on was curious in what spot experinced racers would put rain tires on a newbies list? I have been on the track in dry weather only, and I have logged some miles on the street riding in the rain. When done with caution, I have no worries. I have ridden in some pretty hard rain. But will DOT's be sufficent for racing in rain? Is there a really big advantage to rains?
Again my goal for the first season would be learning and just for enjoyment, and to satisfy an appetite for competetion.

Thanks in advance for all opinions........Gary

[LM954RR]

Full Rain tires are an absolute neccesity (IMO).......you'll need to gain the confidence in them in the rain to go fast, which is something you'll never do on DOT's....You can go slow and resolve to simply finish the race, but they are even less predictable when ridden slow and will bite you eventually.

Rain= Rains

For everything else.....DOT's will do.

[WebCrush]

You don't necessarily need a 2nd set of rims, that just makes life easier.

Race compound DOTs are virtually slicks with some grove in the middle to meet DOT standards. They also have very low silicate in them.

Silicate is what helps rain tires handle water (I don't know how, this is just what I've been told before), couped with the water channeling abilities of the tread and the extra extra soft rubber.

If you are planning on racing in the rain, regardless of ability or level of competitiveness, if you are on anything but rains, IMO, you are just wasting your time out there and are increasing your chances of crashing.

To lower your costs for a set (and a set can last you several years), you might want to look around and see if any other racers have used stuff they'd sell you. They may not be as competetive as a new set, but they'll give you the extra control in the wet that you'd like to have.

[bigred875]

good thread

[Kip]

If you don't plan on "chasing a championship" why bother riding in the rain? IMO it's not a lot of fun
You can't go that fast, you have less control of your bike, and you have a very good chance of crashing which will only cost you money to fix the bike. So is it worth buying rain tires...... No

[trackdog]

Silicate is what helps rain tires handle water

High silica content is what I understand the main factor in the rain tires ability to grip a slick surface.....but with rain also comes the cooling effect which is why rain tires would "melt" in dry conditions.

But ifn you think I would have to tiptoe around the track on DOT's in order to finish and rains would give me the ability to actually be competeive....and/or..decrease the chances of crashing out(I don't believe I would like yo see a DNF next to my name), then rains are a very imprtant component....to racing...I think that it what you are telling this greenhorn.

Got it!

[WebCrush]

Originally posted by Kip
If you don't plan on "chasing a championship" why bother riding in the rain? IMO it's not a lot of fun
You can't go that fast, you have less control of your bike, and you have a very good chance of crashing which will only cost you money to fix the bike. So is it worth buying rain tires...... No

agreed, i hate races in the rain too, but regardless if he's looking for wins or championships, as a novice, he's likely looking for race finishes and possible points to go towards advancement. Every lil bit helps.

[trackdog]

Originally posted by Kip
If you don't plan on "chasing a championship" why bother riding in the rain? IMO it's not a lot of fun
You can't go that fast, you have less control of your bike, and you have a very good chance of crashing which will only cost you money to fix the bike. So is it worth buying rain tires...... No

So it would be in MY best interest to forfit the entrance fee in lieu of an expensive repair.

But can you say how much rain or how wet the track would be to justify rains? Ya, I know...kinda a judgement call. but interested in opinions.
Maybe in my case, if the race started in dry weather and it began to rain heavy, try to finish without crashing...and if the track is already wet..or it has been raining all day with rain expected all day....Bag It!

The money saved in what it would cost for a set of mounted rains, which BTW is the only way I would go, could be used toward DOT's

[WebCrush]

thus the eternal dilemna--how much rain before you use rains. you'll see racers dancing for hours around that decision before a race.

if there is standing water and there is a wet line around the entire track with continuing rain, use the rains--otherwise DOTs should be ok as long as you don't do anything stupid.

rains do cost more than DOTs (or slicks) but its usually a one time purchase. The rains I use I bought back in 2002 and they are still fine, even though I've used them almost a dozen times.

Rains don't wear out much unless the track is drying and you tear em up.

[trackdog]

BTW....how much $ are the GT races in 2005?

[WebCrush]

if things haven't changed, they're 100 pre-entry, 120 post entry

[R7]

Originally posted by trackdog
High silica content is what I understand the main factor in the rain tires ability to grip a slick surface

Here's a scary thought, silica fibre's are rated as one of the top 5 worst things you can breath

[LM954RR]

Yeah....that's reeeeaaaaal scary........

I guess i am gonna have to take my rain tires outta the forced hot air ducting where I store them for the winter.

And get rid of my silica gel pack pets.

[trackdog]

Originally posted by R7
Here's a scary thought, silica fibre's are rated as one of the top 5 worst things you can breath

So when some squid gets on a burnout board and smokes the tire, he's indirectly killing his spectators!.....

[gixxer6]

Heheeeeheee..I like the rain. It's fun, and I can pass people.

[gmdboston]

Seriously.. if your going to race in the rain, just make the investment now. Your going buy the tires any way, so why add body work and pegs and levers to the bil??????

[bigred875]

Originally posted by gmdboston
Seriously.. if your going to race in the rain, just make the investment now. Your going buy the tires any way, so why add body work and pegs and levers to the bil??????

maybe thats because I like to learn the hard way..EVER THINK OF THAT!!!

[gmdboston]

Well then, next time you stop by I'll just break your collar bone with a crow bar and you can get your suspension set up with all the money you saved on crash repair!!!!!!!!!!!

[bigred875]

Originally posted by gmdboston
Well then, next time you stop by I'll just break your collar bone with a crow bar and you can get your suspension set up with all the money you saved on crash repair!!!!!!!!!!!

DEAL!! I'm on my way..I should be all healed by race time right?

[Paul_E_D]

Well, my philosophy is that I race and practice no matter what the conditions. I believe in the long run it makes me a better rider.

Of course, I broke both my hands on the warm-up lap of a foggy, cold practice session that my teammates skipped...

To race in the rain at Loudon you need rain tires. Period. It can be really fun if the conditions are just right. I use rains anytime there is enough rain to make the pavement wet to the touch. Light bikes have an advatage here as they won't melt the rains as quickly.

I don't have spare rims. It's only a hassle when the conditions are changing rapidly (frequent at Loudon). I have to make my decisions early and stick with them.

I can go pretty fast in the full wet. I drag knees in most corners and have some fun spinning up the rear tire. I even use some of my same brake markers. I can't get on the gas nearly as early, so my speeds are lower at the brake markers. With rains, I can maximum brake while straight up and down. Just don't try much trail braking!

Crashing in the full rain is usually pretty gentle. There's not much friction to start you rolling, etc. The bike will slide into something though!

Rain tire allow you to crash going a little faster... ha!

[LM954RR]

Crashing in the full rain is usually pretty gentle.

In comparison to the alternative....it's actually fun.

[trackdog]

In comparison to the alternative....it's actually fun.

Great...look forward to a couple of wet get-offs!

I don't have spare rims. It's only a hassle when the conditions are changing rapidly (frequent at Loudon). I have to make my decisions early and stick with them.

Thanks Paul, I'll keep that in mind. 'Spose it would be worth it to have a set of rains, but I was originally planning on have spare rims/mounted rains...big $ difference as opposed to swapping tires if need be. I could use the monies elsewhere, just getting started and all.

It has been very interesting reading all the replies, here and also on other sites where I had posted this same question.

Thanks everyone..........

[legalspeed]

I didn't see this thread 'till now.

What I tell people is: "Buy your rains, it's like buying points and trophies!"

Honestly, you can't come across easier points or trophies. Lots of times, there will be so few bikes on the grid, all you have to do to get a trophy is to finish the race.

Don't be like I was on my first rain weekend; sitting in the pits wishing I had rains becuase there were only three people out in my race and I knew I was faster than any of them.

Riding in the rain is a skill. Don't wait until you're in a championship and force yourself onto the track for points - your very first time racing in the rain.

Like webbie said, the extra rims are a time saver, but it is a signicant time saver because you don't have to out guess the weather 1 hour in advance (an hour before; for the tire guys to change your rubber). Have them mounted and ready to go=no guess work.

Disclaimer:
I'm a nut case that will race under extreme conditions.

[R7]

I wish i had rains on the day of the great Loudon flood Do you think they would have been beter for me crossing the sandy river in 9/10, or the lake in 12

[Paul_E_D]

DEFINITELY! getting through the 3 foot deep T12 puddle must have been wild without rains. The banking was like ice.

I still can't believe we raced that day!

There was a fantastic photo of Doucette in the T12 Lake. Anyone have a link to that one?