Tyr Sox?

[Honclfibr]

http://www.tyrsox.com/home.html

175 for a new set of tire warmes? Seems awful cheap...are these crap?

[bentbryan]

They are absolutely junk. I wouldn't use them if they were given to me.

[LM954RR]

Those are the moist soil beneath a fresh lawn bomb, in the tire warmer world.

Chickenhawks or the ones from CFM Motorsports. They cost a little more, but are worth it in the grand scheme of things that actually work.

[zx1012r]

bentbryan's reply was a bit harsh. Not all of us can afford $450.00 and up a set for warmers.

While they are not the caliber of the other brands in my opinion, they do work well for my purpose-getting my tires hot before a race. I have never had a problem with them. They are a little harder to put on and take off, but it's not that bad.

If you don't have kids to feed and a mortgage, buy the most expensive ones you can find because obviously they must work the best, right? If you are new to the sport and on a budget and want hot tires before practice or a race, thay work fine!

[bentbryan]

Or you could look around for a good deal.

[Nazo]

I think the Tyr Sox will do the job, will also require more attention to when you plug them in and how long they have been on your tires. I personally would not suggest buying them.
In the long run a good set of tire warmers with different settings will save you money. Tires that go through more heat cycles become spent quicker, having variable settings will allow the tires to stay warm and not cool down.
You can't just keep them on HIGH all day or they will become junk as well.
Its WELL worth it to spend an extra $200 or $300 for tire warmers ONCE, rather than spend $300 for a set of tires 2 or 3 times more in a season than if you had variable settings on your tire warmers.
This was all told to me when I was purchasing all my racing equipment and I'm glad I spent the money and got good tire warmers.
.....Also, good tire warmers seem to have an excellent resale value, so its not just money out the window.

[bentbryan]

Ok, Ok...I guess I'd use 'em if they were given to me.

[Honclfibr]

Good info, thanks guys

I'm not really in the market for warmers yet, figure I should probably start with a race bike Curious how many people run warmers on the EX500s their first season anyways, whether it's a worthwhile as a line item in an already stretched race budget...Maybe I just get a bit of sterno and a rotisserie...

[OreoGaborio]

Sucka foo, we don't run warmers in the Cheap Bastard Racing team

but seriously, i'm glad you just asked that question, cuz i'm wonderin the same thing, whether or not i wanna budget for em for MY EX

[R7]

Keep your eyes open in the pit area and for sale section after the october race weekend. Every year there are always a bunch listed as people are upgrading.
Also if you join the Lockhart Phillips privateer program, you can get the chicken hawk standards for $325 new and the top of the line chicken hawks (not sure the name but they have the fully adjustable thermostat) for $425 brand new.
I'm on my second season with the chicken hawk standards with almost no issues. They did get wet in one of the NHIS monsoons this spring and the thermostats haven't been rite sence but that's my fault and they do still work, If they are on for more than 1/2 hour, i just unplug them for a few minutes (if a race gets delayed)

I'll second what Bryan said. From what i've seen looking around the pits, the tyre sox seem to fit the worse

[R7]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Good info, thanks guys

I'm not really in the market for warmers yet, figure I should probably start with a race bike Curious how many people run warmers on the EX500s their first season anyways, whether it's a worthwhile as a line item in an already stretched race budget...Maybe I just get a bit of sterno and a rotisserie...

If anything, it will probably be more of a confidence issue in your mind when you first start racing? I don't really know though, if I had to make some sort of guess, i'd say if you're running anything slower than 1:25-1:30 lap times, you're not going to gain much with the warmers? I could be way off on that thought??

[daviid]

for this year i dont think i will be using tirewarmers unless i find a real good deal or if i can find someones to borrow. i figure for 2 weekends its not really worth the hassle ofgetting them

[Karaya One]

We had a great phone call from Michelin about tire warmers last week.

The basis for it was to get our thoughts on warmer use at LRRS events due to our support of said events.

They have run across an alarming rise in the number of riders using warmers, and actually leaving tires in warmers all day long. They stressed long and hard how this is NOT needed for tires, and may in fact decrease tire life.

Come in from the race. Park the bike. Let the tires air cool. Twenty minutes before the race, put the warmers on to get the tires up to temp. That's it.

His analogy was - If the brownies are done, do you put them back in the oven?

The chemical process of adhesion has begun with the first heat cycle. The tires are now " on the clock ". Wrapping them in warmers at 175F or whatever is the temp all day long will not make them any stickier, or last any longer.

Jeff Wood turns an 11. Will his Dunlops last longer being in warmers all day long? No. Jeff's use will decrease their life, and its a finite amount of time at that pace. All warmers are supposed to do is make the tires sticky at the drop of the flag, not one lap into the race. They were NEVER designed to somehow increase tire life.

A tire is what it is. It will never be any more or any less than what it was designed to do. Keeping it hot all day long does nothing for it. Doesn't make it better, you won't go faster.

Michelin's issue was riders keeping tires so hot they they began to cook the rubber, getting tires much hotter than aggressive track use would under normal conditions. You take a soft compound race tire, keep it at its peak temp for a long period of time. Will it be any better? Will it be that much stickier?

By right, a soft compound tire was not designed to last. Especially on a 600 and up. So, how will warmers increase this tires life? ZERO.

Warmers can be a big scam. It looks cool, but is it really needed? I see warmers on bikes at Tony's Track Day's and wonder why.

[OreoGaborio]

Dave, good to know, thanks for the post

however, what about heat cycles? isn't it true that if you minimize the number of heat cycles that the tire's performance will not fade as fast if you're not wearing through it?

I know once i get on an ex500, i'm sure i'm not gonna be wearing throught the rubber very fast and the tread will last me a while... but if it goes through many heat cycles the gripping ability of the tire will decrease, will it not?

[bentbryan]

It's too bad we can't get one straight story from Michelin, Dunlop, ChickenHawk etc. It seems everyone has their own idea.

[Karaya One]

A tires performance fades through use. Nothing can change this. You can't extend it, and you cannot make it more than what it is.

If you keep the oil in your sled heated all the time, will you then not have to change it every 3000 miles? Mobil One ( or whatever) is what it is - it was designed to operate at a peak for a finite amount of time.

Once its past its peak, the performance / capabilities will gradually decrease and nothing can change that.

There are heat cycles, but what excatly does that mean to the tire?

Do we buy race tires to last, or to work?

[zx1012r]

I think the tire warmers help the new racer by allowing you to get up to speed faster in practice to use the limited time available. Without warmers you have to get about 2 good laps in to fully heat them up.

[Karaya One]

Warmers not only help new racers but ALL racers in that respect - you hit the hot pit with tires up to temp.

This is what they are designed to do - make you ready on the first lap, not a lap or two in.

The trend now - which was the point of the Michelin call - is that riders now see the need to bake tires all day long. They don't know where this came from or why it happens, but it is.

And to what end?

Everyone mentions heat cycles, but what does that really mean?

With all those MotoGP pics we saw, were those bikes in warmers all the time? Of all the pics I saw, most were not.

[Awesome]

If you look at lap times the first lap of most novice racers is way slower than the laps they'll run during the race. That first lap will get the tires up to temp pretty well. However I would not hammer into the holeshot if I did not have warmers on my tires.

Dave, you're the expert here. All I hear is about trying to reduce the number of heat cycles of a tire going from 175 to ambient temp, and the rate at which it does and I've been told that that has an effect on the rubber. What are the purposes of the woodcraft and chickenhawk tire warmers with the varieable temperatures if this has nothing to do with it? The instructions on the woodcraft specifically say to put them right on the tires and keep them at a low setting all day until shortly before the races.

The suzuka's I got from you are a great quality warmer. I do not like the tyre sox.

[Karaya One]

In the past, the issue was trying to reduce the number of times a tire reached its peak operating temp - to keep it at that level so as to extend the life of the tire.

However, racers are now trying to make a RACE tire last longer. A tire, that by its very design has a very short lifespan.

Can warmers make Mladin's tires last longer?

How can a warmer make Jeff Woods tire last longer?

How can Motorace make John Scheeshers's tire last longer? I have a pile of John's takeoff's outside our warehouse and they are now wasted. Junk. They did what they were supposed to do.

I read all the posts on multiple boards, and i wonder if people know what warmers were really designed to do.

When I ran my GSXR and CBR600 around Loudon back in 1989, you never saw warmers. By 1993, you started seeing Chickenhawks and they were used sparingly. Now, it seems that a guy doing his Rookie Race has warmers mounted.

Tire technology has advanced so far with the current rubber science that even Michelin now questions the constant use of warmers.

In the end, what is the advantage? Once you get past that first lap hurdle, everything else is constant.

[s a x m a n]

all this wants to make me pull my hair out ...

[Nazo]

Karaya One,
I believe your point is right and you are correct......its a tire and wear item, but you are referencing racers that will only use a tire once because they are at that level with that BUDGET.
Alot of us Novice beginner racers with "racer budgets" will most definately do all we can to not spend an additional $300 for a set of tires until the following race weekend......ya know.
And I have read alot and been told alot about setting my tires on a LOW heat setting after practice until I'm gonna be out running in a race......I dunno. Rubber does have a molecular make up and well heating and cooling has to have some effect on the hardness of the rubber, thats just science. There are too many opinions and it appears that some tire manufactureres suggest different things for their tires as opposed to their competitors.
Overall I still think a racer should invest in a decent set of warmers.

[Karaya One]

I think what we aqre seeing are two very different things - commerce and technology.

Michelin's latest info on this states what seems to me to make perfect sence - keeping tires warm does nothing to extend their life. It only makes them hot for the critical first lap. This is all they - the warmers - were supposed to do.

Nowhere has it ever been stated to me how keeping tires at 135F makes them last longer. A tire is what it is, and will only do that for so long.

Now - this is just dave talking and this is my opinion -

It seems to me that all this is being brought about by the tire warmer companies to sell warmers. Nothing more or less. Just commerce. They have no special hotline to the tech involved with tires and just want to prey on racers to pad their bottom line.

How does Chickenhawk or Tyr Sox know what heating a tire all day will do to it? How can they claim to extend the life of a tire? Even Michelin knows this is not possible.

Just my thoughts.....

[McBiggity]

great thread!!!

I've been following this one all day.

[Bulldogr6]

Food for thought.