none of you guys have said "shut up amateur" ?
you're all slacking :lol:
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none of you guys have said "shut up amateur" ?
you're all slacking :lol:
To try & put a more educational spin on this thread, I was almost involved in a very similar crash (that thankfully didn't happen) in nearly the same spot where I almost chopped the nose off of an advanced pace track day rider. It happened a little closer to the tip-in point, though.
The cause of the close call was that I failed to compensate a little discussed fact about racing lines... That as the overtaking rider, my faster pace REQUIRES me to begin turning in earlier than a slower rider (assuming both riders have the same tip-in rate) because I'm covering more ground over the duration of my tip-in and I am likely trail braking a little more, both of which require a slightly shallower entrance to the corner.
It's kind of like turn 11... A lot of slower riders will go right to the cone on the right and then turn left... Whereas the fast racing line will typically put a rider about 4-6 feet away from it. (Another lesson I re-learned this weekend when I almost got put in the grass by a slower rider)
That make any sense?
From everything iv read on NESR it's always Jimmy's fault.
Sticking with what i know.
That makes sense, but knowing that, as the faster (and better) rider, doesn't that mean you should setup for an inside pass on this part of the track if you wanted to be safe? I've never passed on the inside of the bowl, but I haven't thought about that fact you just mentioned, being on the outside in 6 and not in the weeds for the transition to 8 was more important for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by OreoGaborio
Eh... it depends on the situation. Typically I'll try & line up on the inside but circumstances don't always allow.
Side note: faster doesn't always mean better!
I talked with the Duc rider and they felt terrible about it. Said Jim made the little right move and it kind of threw them off a little and threw their brain for a loop for a second. so the Duc rider tried to hit the gas and go around the outside but obviously made a miscalculation. Admitted fault and apologized. so like Jim said this thread wasn't about putting blame on anyone, just showing shit happens and it wasn't really his fault.
Jim, I have watched this video numerous times and only one question comes to mind:
Were you seriously trying to park it through the fence between 5 and 2 again??
:poke:
:D
:spit:Quote:
Originally Posted by butcher bergs
This reminds me of a scene from chasing Amy...Quote:
Originally Posted by CBR929RE
Well it is Jim...lolQuote:
Originally Posted by CBR929RE
Knowing both the riders and hearing about right after it happened I could be biased... edit(this is in no way a slam on Jim. I just heard the other side of the story first and have race next to them more.)
right before you made contact I wondered were you we going. That looked like a track day line to me.
On a similar note, this is why I stopped going out in the combined practice. Too many different lines and speeds.
I brought up splitting groups 1 and 2 back up like they use to be at the riders meeting. They said they would look into the feasibility of it.
I don't think its any different than a race really. I skip it because I'm not getting up that early for a crappy few minutes of practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyho414
I hope this does not come off sounding high and mighty but I almost clipped someone because of speed and lines differences so I have a strong feeling about it. I know the passing rider is responsible but in my case I would never of guessed the difference to have been so great.
The difference I see is that in a race when I come up on traffic there may only be one or 2 in a row. I counted 35 bikes on track in combined 1&2 one day, of those there may have been 3-4 experts. That makes for a lot of traffic. Plus, Sunday mornings I'm practicing at 18's. A new amateur may practicing at say...25's That is quit a bit of a difference. Yea, that makes a pass easier but only if you know where they're going.
a lot of people feel the same way about sleeping in and that is why they combined it.
sorry back to topic
This. I understand the reasoning for combining group 1 & 2 practice, but I’m definitely NOT a big fan of it. When I do go out in combining practice I don't use it for race practice ... as you say, way too many different lines and speeds. I’ll use it to either shake out the cobwebs in the bike (or me) for a lap or two, and/or maybe find a few amateurs I know to help/show them things we previously talked about in the paddock ... but I don’t use it for race practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyho414
I was the odd monkey in that meeting, I noted that as an amateur, I LIKE the combined sessions so I can see what the experts are doing differently, and it's a good warm up for potentially getting dusted by a few white plates in the coming GTL on Saturday morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko
I remember the old practices.... ex500's, motards, middleweights.... TOTAL CLUSTERFUCK.
But it was fun. And it did wonders for my RACECRAFT.
Practice isn't just about getting clean laps. It's about LEARNING. Learning how to ride fast, make passes, etc.
Pretty much sums it up. Combined groups 4 and 5 are no better. How many times have we discussed this in the garage after one of the combined sessions? Ive certainly am guilty of making some close passes in practice but there are times when you have 0 choice in the matter. I probably spend 60% of the lap sitting up on the bike. Its the curse of being faster but not fast enough to make a pass in practice. The obvious solution is the separate practices but is there time in the schedule for that? We run a tight schedule if everything goes smooth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko
Having lines to follow is great and I get that but the biggest thing is combining the auto bump with the combined practice. There are amateurs that put in faster laps then me this year, that's not the issue. It's the newbies that hit a 23 a few times in a race that get bumped up(which I think is good). Put them out with guys doing 16's(group 8 cut is 14's I believe) and shit gets weird real quick.
One thought was split 1 and 2 but to make up the time they may have to shorten the second practice sessions from 12 to 10 minutes. I hate to be the person to have brought this up and end up taking 2 minutes out of everyone second practice. From my point, Loosing 2(one lap) to gain a good 8(7 clean laps) sounds good to me. For everyone else I'm sure they will be pissed.
I should just get fast and be done with it.
should I start and new thread?
I get that and appreciate the point ... which is why I'll use the combined practice to find amateurs I know to help/show them things we previously talked about in the paddock. But that's kind of what I'll do in Friday's practice (when it doesn't rain). Like Tim, I'm not talking about amateurs that are putting in quick laps, that's not the issue. It's the newbies that hit a 23 a few times in a race who are doing 25's in practice. Then the cluster of 6-10 riders that back up behind them in a pack, each a little too timid to get around. That's 7-9 second a lap difference from guys trying to turn 16's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurlon
i do 1st practice as a way to warm up and check the track conditions from stuff that may have gone on the line overnight.
i dont think i've done faster than a 1:23 all season in practice #1
Other thoughts.... Why not combine group 1 for their first practice with whatever the novice equivalent is? Like Pete said, don't amateurs need to learn their racecraft too (maybe more so than experts)? Why not shift group 2 guys into the group 7 time slot so that they can be combined with group 8 guys for their first practice? Then I can tell Eric or Shane they shouldn't be blazing on their out laps or passing me too closely in practice. Are these suggestions too dangerous? Why? Why is it too dangerous to put guys doing 16's in with guys turning 13's, but it’s okay to put the guys turning +25's in with the guys turning 16's?Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyho414
Being selfish, I too think maybe I should just get .027 faster and be done with it ... but that isn't going to help solve the problem for everyone else.
And don't you dare start another thread ... I don't want to have to retype or cut and past all this.
Um ... that's what the sweeper, golf-cart-riding corner workers and Eric on his scooter are doing out on the track first thing in the morning. When the track goes green and I go out there, I feel fairly confident that everything has been taken care of (Fluffy notwithstanding).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Faceplant
:stupid:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko
Stop poosy footing around, Jim. You shouldn't be going out there if you intend to ride more than 3 seconds off race pace. You're doing yourself a disservice if you do. You're just training yourself to go slow! ;)
pete, i still made top 3 on the board. no one in group 1 does less than 3 seconds from race pace. the track sucks for us early people.
Then do what I do and skip first practice. :D
Seriously, don't train yourself to go slow. Practice when conditions are close to race conditions. If it's raining in the morning and I know it's going to be dry for the races or vice versa, I skip practice all together.
With all due respect, that's just not true. Maybe for rounds 1 & 7, but that's not representative of the other rounds in between.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Faceplant