Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
In situation though, it never clears up and is unridable.
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
ok i have know solid info but some ideas
All motors need air fuel and spark to run
u already checked spark so it might be air or fuel, if i remember correctly r6's are throttle by wire so that might be broke but it still wouldn't explain the idle, Have u checked to make sure a rodent didnt get in somewhere during those 5 days it was stored
also fuel could be off somehow, maybe tps not reading correctly or faulty fuel pump.
just guesses good luck
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
Have the battery load tested. Yes I know it's fairly new.
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
When I had it apart, I tested a few more things other than the plugs before it went to the stealership.
First off, no codes are present.
I tested the TPS and it's outputting a signal. Furthermore, with the bike powered up, a twist of the throttle signals the throttle body servos to actuate, opening the throttle blades approx. 70%.
The airbox is clean, heck not even a spec of dirt anywhere in the intake tract. The filter is clean.
The fuel pump is turning on, and I'm getting fuel pressure. How much, I'm not exactly sure, but it is a substantial amount of pressure.
The engine does indeed run, but runs exactly like it's down a cylinder. I tried riding it at the track and when I got it home, but it doesn't get out of its own way and doesn't clear up over time.
I'm a ME by trade and extremely technical and thorough, but this one had me stumped, which is why I sent it out under warranty, and I get the feeling the shop is just tossing parts at it in the hopes of fixing it. What gets me a little frustrated is that while they are waiting for this new ECU to come in, you'd think that they would continue testing other aspects. Particularly I would expect them to do a compression and a leakdown test in the meantime to at least rule out internal engine problems. :idea: Like a hug-up valve or a cracked valve seat.
Anyhow, I should hear from them by Tue or Wed and get an update....at least I hope, but I'd still like to hear what others may think.
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
I have an 07 R6 that is having issues because of the tune on startup. I know this is probably something you have already looked at but is there a chance that the ECU map is off causing misstiming or something similar in terms of your fuel injectors. Mine needs a power commander in order to run properly but not sure if your stock map is off
Just a thought.
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Degsy
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Check the header pipes to see if 1is cooler than the others.
Tried that....the water on the header test didn't seem to give any definitive results
OC.... It could indeed be something messed up with the map, but its strange why it happened all of a sudden. In a way I hope it is that simple, then I don't have to worry about these techs ripping apart the bike any further. I do have a PCV to put on it in the next few weeks to go along with my Leo exhaust. I just need a running bike first...
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
Update 10-20-10
Got in touch with the dealership today. I was told that they swapped in a new ECU, and the bike is still running like shit.
At this point I'm a little pissed off. They've had it for over 12 full working days. I understand that things take time, but they can't give me a straight answer as to what their next move will be in order to try to fix the issue. I was told, "The best thing you can do is to keep calling in to check on it...", and "We're trying to work on it...". To me this is completely unacceptable.:evil:
A short while later I get a call back from the service manager explaining that they tried to work on the bike, but still can't figure it out and they are getting all their instruction from Yamaha. Apparently the tech looks at the bike, calls a yamaha rep, explains the problem, and then yamaha tells them what to do. So for a two week period of going back and forth, all they were able to accomplish was to check the plugs and coil packs and swap a computer. Is it just me, or is it ridiculous for a service department to rely on the manufacturer to get any diagnostics done? At this point they are "waiting on yamaha to get back to them..."
I'm willing to work with them if they are going to tell me what they are narrowing it down to, or how they can proceed to work towards a solution. If trying "X", "Y" and "Z" didn't work, what are you going to do next? I don't want to end up in a situation where they start pulling apart the engine because they "think" it's the issue, and then I end up with an engine that's been picked at by some tech.
I'd like opinions on what I should do.
Do I call Yamaha and make a complaint?
Is this the standard practice for a dealership to diag. a bike?
Do I yank the bike back and bring it somewhere else (before or after making a complaint with yamaha?)?
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fastsc92
Do I call Yamaha and make a complaint?
Is this the standard practice for a dealership to diag. a bike?
Do I yank the bike back and bring it somewhere else (before or after making a complaint with yamaha?)?
absolutely
i've heard worse stories
give them a week after filing a complaint to headquarters
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
I remember talking with a tech at my local dealer a few years ago and that is how Yamaha works seeing they are paying for the parts and labor. Unless it's obvious what the problem (which it isn't in your case) is, Yamaha will tell them what parts to toss at it.
If it were me and I had a good relationship with the dealer, I simply explain to them what I'd expect from them and give them a chance to take care of the problem as quick as possible.
No relationship and you're not happy with them, I'd look into the lemon law. A lot of lemon laws give the dealer a time limit to make a repair. I know here it's something like 14 consecutive days with out it, or 28 total days without it, and you could qualify for a buyback. It's a shitty way, but if you know the facts and present them with them, my bet is you'll get results ASAP
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
If my bike is experiencing a complex problem that takes time to fix...I'm totally cool with it. But since I dropped it off, I've never got a call from them. I've always been the one to call in and inquire about it, and I usually wait a few days in-between calling, and generally call towards the end of the day, giving them the benefit of the doubt that they would actually get in touch with me first.
Time line is as follows:
- Dropped the bike off Wed Oct 6th, 2:20pm
- Called for a status report Sat Oct 9th, 3:45pm. Was told that they checked for spark twice, confirmed that it had spark and were further investigating.
- Called for a status report Tuesday Oct 12, 5:15pm. Told that they believe that it was a computer, were in negotiations with Yamaha to order a replacement. Informed me that they would order one and it would be in in approx 1-2days.
- Called for a status update Sat Oct, 16th, 3:15pm. Told they were going to rob a computer from a bike on the floor to test it, but that bike sold. Still waiting on whether to order one, or to nab one from another bike. Contradicting what they told me days prior about ordering a new one.... Was told to call back middle of the next week to check in.
- Called for a status report Wed. Oct 20th, 3:15pm. Told that they swapped in an ECU from a bike in the showroom, same result. Waiting on Yamaha for instruction
Total Working Days at Dealership: 12.5
I feel that I'm not being unreasonable at all in my status updates, as I give them plenty of time in-between inquiries to get work done. I also don't think I'm being unreasonable in my expectations for a dealer-customer relationship. I call for a status and I expect to get an explanation what they did, what they are going to do, and if those don't work how they are going to work towards a solution. If the standard procedure is for them to wait on orders from Yamaha, I'm going to call Yam. and state my concerns. Maybe this will light a fire under their ass.
I'll also look into lemon laws, but I thought that it had to come back 3 times with the same problem. I bought the bike in MA, I'm from NH, but it's at a MA dealership, so I don't know whose laws I would fall under. Time to investigate.
I appreciate the help guys.
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
Interesting about MA lemon law:
Quote:
Any new car, motorcycle, van or truck bought in Massachusetts from a new-car dealer is covered for one year or 15,000 miles of use, whichever comes first. The law also covers vehicles that are resold during the one year or 15,000-mile term of protection.
If your car meets these qualifications, you can either ask for a replacement or refund and the dealer is legally required to give it to you.
There's a specific process that anyone considering using the Massachusetts Lemon Law must follow:
You need to bring the car in for repair of the same problem at least three times or for a total of 15 business days.
You need to officially notify the manufacturer of one final attempt to repair the vehicle. The manufacturer has seven days to comply.
If the manufacturer tries to repair it and fails, you have the right to ask for a refund or replacement. If the manufacturer does not respond to your final request, you need to ask for a mediation or arbitration hearing.
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
Well I guess the map idea is out since they put a new ECU in it =p....
I wonder if the injectors are bad... aka not supplying the proper amount of fuel that the ecu is calling for....
Besides that if they cant fix it I would just get a new bike as there is a possible chance if it went bad once it could do so again if they do not find the root cause...
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
its gotta be something stupid, ah i've been waiting to find out what it is for a while now lol racking my brain. only thing i can think of i shorted out coil that tests fine but shorts when it needs to jump a load. The map sensor might be reading wrong but i hope they already ruled that out. also should throw a code if that was messed up, but my honda car's map shit the bed on me and it did a something similiar to your bike, idled like crap and pretty much stalled with any throttle.
i'd say injectors but it wouldn't cause it to fall on its face like that even a bike running on 3 cylinders will rev up a bit.
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
This is true...
Have they tried hooking up to a computer and running it and trying to recreate the situation. Some computers (specifically for the car industry) give you real time data for the engine progression as you rev up. That way you can elimate anything int he fuel system as it will tell you how much fuel is being injected and all those fun data points.
You should be able to eliminate a better portion of all those ideas creepy up if you run that test. Either that or something will jump out and go "fix me"
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
I think you are being to hard on the dealership. Remember your bike is not the only one they have to work on. They are only going to get paid for the flat rate on what ever the fix ends up being. It is procedure to go back and forth between manufacturer for tech advise.
Do you know who the tech is your running down? Might be a punk right out of MMI, but my ex local dealer tech wrenched on Blackhawk heli's on the weekends, I think I would trust him to look at my valves.
You guys are getting way ahead of yourselves talking lemon law. Its been 2 weeks, I can remember when you couldn't get a service apt in 2 weeks.
Most constructive thing you can do right now is call yamaha, they maybe can bump the dealer up the tech adviser ladder at yami and get him in touch with someone more useful.
Maybe worth talking to GM at dealer too just to make sure it's on his radar.
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
Update 10-23-10
Alright, so the last time I talked with them was Wed. The dealership told me that they were waiting on Yamaha (which I thought was strange...), so first thing Thursday morning, I called Yamaha Corp.
I was connected to a case manager, and told her my story. I was very polite and explained that I was disappointed in the lack of information, slow response, no obv. plan to work towards a solution, and mentioned that the dealership was, "waiting on Yamaha". I asked her if they were waiting on Yamaha, then what was the hold-up? She responded that in no situation is Yamaha going to advise the dealership what to fix, and how to fix it. She said that they are available for technical support if needed, but they will not instruct the dealer what to do. So she puts me on hold and gives the dealership a call.
In the scramble of putting me on hold and transferring calls, I got disconnected, but she called me back about 30min later. She basically just told the dealership my concerns/questions and asked them for a status. She mentioned that now they think it is a fuel injection problem. She also called them out on the whole "waiting for Yamaha story...". Of course, both the managers at the dealership denied it.
She told me that they would work on it on Friday, because the tech wasn't going to be in on Thursday. If they don't have the resource, that’s not MY problem, they need to get someone to work on this bike. Anyhow, she said to wait until the end of day Friday and that the service manager would personally call me and give me an update. Well surprise, surprise, he never called me. So at 5:50pm, I give them a call, politely ask for the service manager, and I'm told that he leaves at 4:30. So at this point, they've had my bike for 14 service days, fed me a few lies, given me the run around, and have NOT ONCE called me to give me an update.
So I'm on the phone with another shop manager, who is definitely pissed at me for calling Yamaha, but I continue to remain polite and ask for an update. The response I get is, "Listen buddy, we're working on it alright?...we've had two techs on it today, and we're working on it...". So I ask, what do you think it is, I was told that you were checking on the FI system, what did you find? The response was again, "We're working on it..". So again, I expressed my concerns about them not having a plan to fix this and I asked if the service manager can call me ASAP. I was told that Monday would be the earliest time that I would hear from him....
So about 2 min later I get a call back from the dealership. The same shop manager tells me that he talked to the techs and now they think the entire wiring harness needs to be replaced. Two minutes ago, you weren't sure what it was, now you think it's a wiring harness?! However, he informs me again that they are "waiting for Yamaha...". WTF? I thought we already went through this BS before. What happened to the fuel injection issue? Anyhow, I don't argue the situation because at this point, I've had enough. I remain polite and express my thanks for the update. He then tells me that the service manager will be calling me on Saturday, on his day off, to give me an update. So here I am, Saturday at 11:30, waiting to see if he gives me a call....
I understand that the dealership can be busy, but I made an appointment to bring this bike in, and from that point on, I don't care if they are getting flat rate, there should have been a tech on this vehicle every day since I dropped it off. Repairs can take time, but there is no solid direction on what the problem is, and it's a total guess at this point. The fact that the bike is broken isn't my issue, its the lack of information, logical sense, run-arounds and lies that I keep hearing that pisses me off. And now all of a sudden they think it "might" be the wiring harness? How does that make any sense at all?
To make a long story short....at the end of today (Saturday 23rd), there is a certified letter going to Yamaha for their final repair notice. Yamaha has 7 days to respond for a final chance to fix it, or not touch it. At the end of those seven days I'm entitled to a replacement bike, or a refund+titling fees, taxes, registration fees, interest paid and insurance paid.
I honestly did NOT want it to come to this point, but what else am I supposed to do? I'm absolutely disgusted with the dealership (I'll continue to leave their name out of it for now...). Luckily, I've been in contact with a laywer, who will help me through this process.
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fastsc92
Update 11-23-10
you've already talked to them in November?
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
That service dept. sucks balls.
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimmy 2 Shots
you've already talked to them in November?
edit....
Re: 09' R6 Running like sh!t
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Uncle Snake
That service dept. sucks balls.
:plusone:
If a service department ever said to me.."listen buddy", that entire store would know how displeased I was.
What dealer is this?
