Starter Home Advice (Buying, Building, Financing, Inspiration, etc)

So over the last week some things have come up and I may end up buying a property thats been in the family for a long time. The uncle that lived next to my parents recently passed away and there's a very good chance that his property will go on the market eventually. I'm being a bit pressured into buying it. Long story short, the neighborhood started as summer camps decades ago that everyone in my extended family had a place on. As they all got older the camps were build to be 4 season and they all moved there full time.

Its a 3 acre river front location, on the river I grew up on... next to my parents (who I'm pretty close with so thats fine). The biggest downside is its very small and old... (has a huge barn/garage though!). I know a lot of you on here are experienced in real estate, finance, and carpentry... so I figured I'd ask....

Financial situation aside... if I were to purchase it...whats involved in taking on a "build this house into what I actually want" plan?

It sounds like a terrific opportunity as long as it's not too far a commute for work. Based on the fact that you have 3 acres and that other properties in the "camp" have been converted to 4 season use, you should not have any problems with zoning or soil suitability (percolation for septic system, well water, structural stability for foundation). For cost and speed, consider modular construction with prefabricated units. Factory quality control has improved significantly over the years and these are not just for low end construction. In fact, being manufactured in a controlled factory environment gives the prefab units an advantage over on-site stick built.

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Originally Posted by RyanNicholson

f I were to purchase it...whats involved in taking on a "build this house into what I actually want" plan?

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what river ? if its a listed river under the comprehensive shoreland act, there are restrictions on what you can and how you do things

In a word Ryan, the 'build this house into' plan sucks. It's a shit-ton of work and never ending and a return on your investment is most likely not gonna happen. I wish we had looked into our house A LOT deeper before we executed that same plan...

BUT, it CAN be fun. I know it sounds incredibly contradictory, but it's true. You can learn a lot too...

Some things to double-check for that come to mind real quick:
-If it's an old camp as you say, check for 2x4 exterior walls. Even with advances in insulation, you're still very limited in your options
-You may need to upgrade the septic system
-Depending on when exactly it was built, check ALL electrical for aluminum wiring. It was widely used in camps and seasonals in the late 60's & early 70's
-Waterfront property in general is a bitch now. You're unbelievably restricted on what you can & can't do and permitting alone can prove to be prohibitive for some projects now
The list goes on & on. Would *I* do it again? Absolutely not, never. NEVER again regardless of the price...

None of this is meant to discourage you, it really isn't. Do what makes you happy and hope for the best, just expect the worse with something like this. This could make you very happy on the other hand too... :D

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Originally Posted by RandyO

what river ? if its a listed river under the comprehensive shoreland act, there are restrictions on what you can and how you do things

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Its on the Contoocook... and I believe it does fall into that. I'm being told there are a ton of restrictions as to what can be done with it, including no ability to change the footprint of the current building. Which worries me, as its 1 floor and MAYBE 700sq. Its tiny. This is all new to me so I have a lot more research to do though.

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Originally Posted by Stoneman

In a word Ryan, the 'build this house into' plan sucks.

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Yea... to be honest I think like you said, I could probably have some fun with it. BUT my biggest worry is buying it because its a family thing, and getting backed into a corner with a home I'm not even remotely happy with. The location is awesome (and beautiful) but if its restricted to the point that I can't build it into what I want in the long run I have little interest in living in a shack.

I don't know much about how restricted it is, but its one of many unknown concerns I need to look into.

Great advice though guys, keep it comin.

Footprint is HUGE - my parents converted our long term summer camp to a full home locally on a lake and had an incredibly difficult time getting the clearances to expand. Most of the expansion went upward (2 floors) and then they built a heated room out front that doesn't have a foundation. The house is beautiful now but lots of money to get it where it is.

Also - from my experience buying a home - plan for big costs no matter what. How old is the septic system? When the house changes owner the city/town may force upgrades on the new owner that they couldn't on the old owner due to grandfather laws. What are the taxes like there? In Massachusetts waterfront property is VERY expensive, you pay by the foot. If you're sitting on three acres that's awesome, but how much of it sits along the river front?

Owning a home can be really fun, but it's also a LOT of work.

Buy it for the land - the house can always be changed/replaced. Does it have a real septic system, well, internal plumbing, and electrical service? These are four places you can throw ungodly amounts of money at to bring up to code for year round living...

Stoneman hit it right on the head - if it's built as a 3 season camp you are going to go broke to get it livable all year round... From experience trying to mate up new construction to old existing is a bitch. Leave the level and framing square in the truck - use your eye to line up the walls...

If you like the land - buy the place (especially if you can get a family deal on it). Live in it as is (or with small changes - a mortgage beats rent any day of the week), while looking at another corner to dig a foundation and put up the house you want. At that point take a look at Epoch Modular right down the street.

I know it's already been commented on, but I can't stress enough that location is key with any house.
I've lived in crappy houses in great locations and loved it. I've also lived in beautiful houses in crappy locations and hated it.
Sounds like you really like this particular location.

Also, will your parents/family have a fit when you decide to sell it to a developer in a few years? You very well may want to flip it when the market gets better. Maybe some developer with connections will get approval to put in a McMansion. Is that going to freak out your family? Would that worry you?

Your biggest issue is going to be septic/water and getting the permits to do any type of building near a body of water. I would agree with qqac on considering a modular if/when you do get the go ahead from the town. I love the pre-built log home kits you can buy and from what a few friends who bought one a couple years ago said, with a little bit of general contracting knowlege, they are pretty easy to build.

Good luck!

As far as the place itself is concerned, its already a 4 season house... its just way smaller and outdated than I'd be happy with as it currently sits. I don't know the specifics of what kind of septic/electrical its got right now, but I'd definitely find out that stuff before buying. Good advice though.

As far as selling it down the road... someone in the family would scoop it up in a heartbeat, no question.

Keep in mind I'm not dead set on it... my parents have talked about buying it if I don't. We've actually already talked about having them buy it so I can rent it and build it, then buy it from them haha.

Might be off topic since you didn't mention it, but I would avoid having your family "finance" your purchase. Lots of families fall apart over finances and IMO you're better off giong to a bank and taking a mortgage.

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Originally Posted by ThisBitch

Your biggest issue is going to be septic/water and getting the permits to do any type of building near a body of water. I would agree with qqac on considering a modular if/when you do get the go ahead from the town. I love the pre-built log home kits you can buy and from what a few friends who bought one a couple years ago said, with a little bit of general contracting knowlege, they are pretty easy to build.

Good luck!

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Yea I know a couple people that have gone that route, and helped build one for my Aunt/Uncle out in Webster... its a gorgeous house now, esp for what was essentially a big ass erector set. Thats a route I would definitely consider.

The Epoch ideas were good too, I've heard some good things about them. Seems easier than building from scratch and just as good.

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Originally Posted by Bonk!

Might be off topic since you didn't mention it, but I would avoid having your family "finance" your purchase. Lots of families fall apart over finances and IMO you're better off giong to a bank and taking a mortgage.

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Agreed. I'd either be buying it myself, or let my parents buy it and rent it from them while I build it and eventually buy it off of them.

Buy it. If you find out its to much for you. Sell to your cousin in a few years. Keep it in the family. You really don't lose on realistate. A lot of work, some fun. I will NOT Do it again, everything can be replaced but time. And I lost a lot of quality time working on mine.

Buy it and a 60 foot motorhome

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Originally Posted by RyanNicholson

The Epoch ideas were good too, I've heard some good things about them. Seems easier than building from scratch and just as good.

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I'm in an Epoch modular that was put up almost 12 years ago. After they dropped it on the foundation it was closed in that afternoon, and 2 days to get the utilities hooked up. I finished the upstairs myself and worked with the GC to buy the materials at their cost...

You can literally pull in the driveway with an open cellar hole in the morning and watch your debt load skyrocket within about 4 hours...

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Originally Posted by RyanNicholson

Its on the Contoocook... and I believe it does fall into that. I'm being told there are a ton of restrictions as to what can be done with it, including no ability to change the footprint of the current building. Which worries me, as its 1 floor and MAYBE 700sq. Its tiny. This is all new to me so I have a lot more research to do though.




Yea... to be honest I think like you said, I could probably have some fun with it. BUT my biggest worry is buying it because its a family thing, and getting backed into a corner with a home I'm not even remotely happy with. The location is awesome (and beautiful) but if its restricted to the point that I can't build it into what I want in the long run I have little interest in living in a shack.

I don't know much about how restricted it is, but its one of many unknown concerns I need to look into.

Great advice though guys, keep it comin.

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How big is the Barn? Maybe you could convert that into a House and use the house footprint as a Garage. :dunno:

ok... I was going by memory at first but got a little more info....

The lot is actually about 1 acre, the septic is relatively new, electrical is a non issue as the building would be replaced, the well....dug well with the point down around 30 feet, never a problem with the well for as long back as they can remember...would have to dig up the lot plans to see what the actual river frontage is.

Theres no fixing the house... considering hell the living room was originally a rail car from the 20's converted into a camp, converted into a year round house haha.

Apparently my Mother is friends with the Sales manager at Epoch... thats the first person I'm talking to as this moves further.

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Originally Posted by Doc

How big is the Barn? Maybe you could convert that into a House and use the house footprint as a Garage. :dunno:

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That was actually a thought too... and could be an option. Apparently the barn was even prepped to become a house at one point but there are a number of people that don't think the town will allow it.

Really just talking abot an exsisting footprint thing.

Knock the house down to build a man cave on it's footprint (Garage with a liveable loft above it), then Knock the Barn down to build a BIG house on that footprint. Using the Man cave as a place to live, store tools and supplies as you build the BIG house on the Barn Footprint.

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Originally Posted by Doc

Knock the house down to build a man cave on it's footprint (Garage with a liveable loft above it), then Knock the Barn down to build a BIG house on that footprint. Using the Man cave as a place to live, store tools and supplies as you build the BIG house on the Barn Footprint.

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^^^ That's a pretty damn good idea, in my opinion...

--mark

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Originally Posted by Doc

Really just talking abot an exsisting footprint thing.

Knock the house down to build a man cave on it's footprint (Garage with a liveable loft above it), then Knock the Barn down to build a BIG house on that footprint. Using the Man cave as a place to live, store tools and supplies as you build the BIG house on the Barn Footprint.

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Yea that isn't a bad idea either... To be honest if I was gunna do that I'd probably just live in the house as is until the house is livable then tackle the garage though. Then I could take my time a little more and save some money.

In the past I have seen people in a similar situation demo the house, and build a new one with the same footprint for the foundation/first floor. But put a big overhang on both front and rear, as well as a farmers porch to hide the overhang a little. It's a nice way to "steal" a little square footage without having the house look like a fucking abomination, and also end up with a decent sized second floor. IMO, saving up and starting new is the only way to go, if you can get permits.

Good luck, I hope things work out.

If it's on a river, is it in a flood zone? Keep that in mind for your personal belongings...and having a homeowners insurance rate 2-3 times higher than normal.
Personally, i'd leave the barn as is. They are usefull in many ways, plus I think it'd be ahrder to get a permit to convert it.
If you have a newer septic and don't want to fork out the cash for another one, you'll have to build your house around that. I don't know how NH works (Randy?) but around here septic is designed by number of bedrooms, not total sqft of the house. So if the little camp system is designed for a 2 or 3 bedroom house, that's what you'll have to rebuild to.
With a 700sqft footprint, you can make it 1400 by going up a level...and it costs quite a bit less to go up that out:beerbang:

many things to consider when developing or redeveloping waterfront property in New Hampshire

most important over and above septic system, well are impervious surfaces and overall % of the lot

well location is critical as well,

septic system is actually one of the things on the bottom of the list to be concerned with (it is still on the list though)

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Originally Posted by RyanNicholson

Apparently my Mother is friends with the Sales manager at Epoch... thats the first person I'm talking to as this moves further...

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I'd be talking to the local building inspector/code enforcement officer, planning & zoning boards before you talk to ANYONE else or even consider anyone else's recommendations. They'll tell you EXACTLY what you need to know and end any & all speculation on this. Rather than listen to everyone shooting arrows, get the straight answer direct and put an end to the guessing...

FWIW-RandyO will probably give you the most relevant info here as far as building stipulations in your area. The man's a walking encyclopedia with tons of LOCAL experience with these sort of things...