On-track incident Sep30th NHMS. Cause

[eboos]

Because I have a lot of time and like to spend it overdoing relatively simple things, I will try to reproduce those bolts in my shop's machine shop. I'll do a couple for myself first, and see how long it takes. If it's worth repeating inexpensively, I will post pricing for prepared hardware.

[FireboltEric_MA]

If these bolts make me go faster, then I am in!!! I need all the help I can get out there!

[eboos]

I might be able to save about an ounce, maybe 2 from all the bolts. That equals like 6 horsepower.

[ssg]

The cheaper alternative would be to grab some beers, a bunch of 1/16" drill bits, and your bike and come on over.

It will help to pass the winter by, too

Make those DeWalt cobalt 1/16" and you'll only need 1 if you can avoid plunging the drillpress into the bolt if the bit starts to bend.

…that, a carbide automatic center punch, and used non-moly oil is your best friend.

Not that I am opposed to spending 100$ on bolts but mine would be OEM spares that I would drill





Sucky situation for the riders in regards to the bolt issue…glad to hear part of the root cause has been established

[drop]

Make those DeWalt cobalt 1/16" and you'll only need 1 if you can avoid plunging the drillpress into the bolt if the bit starts to bend.

i've got a set of dewalt cobalt bits as well...greatest thing i've got for drilling metal. the hex shank keeps the bit from slipping in the chuck too.

[13]

I was doing tech for the trackday last monday and I caught a bike with caliper bolts that weren't even threaded in. I pulled one out and handed it to him saying, "You don't want to drop these on the track, someone might crash if they hit it.". The guy looked mortified, he said he had been up till about midnight working on the bike and just must've forgotten. Yikes!

Needless to say his bike was fine tooth combed.

[keeena]

That pic sends shivers up the spine...definitely not a good thing.

I know lots of folks are doing maintenance during the day (often swapping tires out). If you [TD Org] have the manpower and make a point for folks to re-tech after mid-session work, that could be real useful. But kinda common sense; even just grab a buddy to do the same. That second set of eyes can make a difference.

[The Snowman]

That pic sends shivers up the spine...definitely not a good thing.

I know lots of folks are doing maintenance during the day (often swapping tires out). If you [TD Org] have the manpower and make a point for folks to re-tech after mid-session work, that could be real useful. But kinda common sense; even just grab a buddy to do the same. That second set of eyes can make a difference.

May be hard to do on a day that's off and on rain though.

I know one day this season, Kates, Firebolt Eric & I were competing for the most wheel changes in a single track day.

[FireboltEric_MA]

Nothing to be proud of here, But that same day P-Kates was guiding me around the track, I hit the bowl and braked hard and my front end started to flutter... I knew exactly what it was as soon as it happened. I pitted in right away and sure enough, caliper bolts were hand tight.

Not my greatest moment... BUT one I took seriously... I will miss/be late for a session to be safe now, and double check EVERYTHING.....

[The Snowman]

Nothing to be proud of here, But that same day P-Kates was guiding me around the track, I hit the bowl and braked hard and my front end started to flutter... I knew exactly what it was as soon as it happened. I pitted in right away and sure enough, caliper bolts were hand tight.

Not my greatest moment... BUT one I took seriously... I will miss/be late for a session to be safe now, and double check EVERYTHING.....

I had Annalisa to keep my head on straight those 3 days.

When I did the first 2 changes, I was rewiring the caliper bolts every time. Then PK asked why I was redoing them every time.

I wanted to say it's because I don't trust myself.

[Dieseldan]

wow that is scary i am deff safety wiring my bike for next season.

[Mustang]

At the Gap this past May, the Buell spit out a caliper bolt, and the other was very slowly working its way out. I found this out after getting a very slight wobble from the front, followed by a CLUNK every time I hit the brake lever - the caliper was slamming against the wheel as I applied pressure. I haven't had the means until now, but all bolts are getting wired this winter.

[scottieducati]

Hugely good idea to wire caliper bolts, and axle nuts! I'm going to be going through the track bikes this winter and adding some cotter pin type setups so I don't have to re-wire everything every time. Goes to show that these things can happen, even if you torqued everything correctly. The stresses on brakes and chassis parts on bikes at trackdays are indeed much greater than street riding. Be safe everyone, perfect winter project as CEO indicated!

[daviid]

Hugely good idea to wire caliper bolts, and axle nuts! I'm going to be going through the track bikes this winter and adding some cotter pin type setups so I don't have to re-wire everything every time. Goes to show that these things can happen, even if you torqued everything correctly. The stresses on brakes and chassis parts on bikes at trackdays are indeed much greater than street riding. Be safe everyone, perfect winter project as CEO indicated!

i failed lrrs tech last year with clips in the caliper bolts

[Jim]

i failed lrrs tech last year with clips in the caliper bolts

you cant safety wire R-clips to the bolts?

[SVRACER01]

I had this happen to me in T1 once. scary stuff. Glad no one was hurt. edit: well other than mondos of course.

mine fell off at the apex of 3...just as i got done trailbraking. something flew by my head so i looked down as i went through 4 and there was my caliper swaying in the breeze.

[Tabby]

This is just an aside. Lockwiring works, as does the appropriate Locktite. If for some strange reason neither can be used, moly based anti-seize works surprisingly well. Anti-seize??? Like "Frank's Red Hot Sauce", I put that shit on everything. Well, not quite. I discovered years ago, that when that stuff fills in the gaps between the threads, it acts like a damper, but not a glue. I talked to a mechainical engineer where I work, and told him what I found out. He said it made sense. If certain sympathetic frequencies reach a high enough amplitude{engineering talk, not mine}, the threads will vibrate against each other and move about. In my situations, the moly filled the gaps and damped the vibrations. For me, it started with a few engine cover bolts that had vibrated loose on my old GSXR. Having delt with coverbolts that had corroded into place on previous bikes, and knowing the thread pitch in aluminum wasn't very forgiving, I took a shot with the anti-seize, based on my hunch. It has worked ever since. My caliper bolts have been anti-seized and have not budged. I'm not in any way trying to say this should be a replacement for conventional lockwiring or Locktite. In fact, in light of what happened, since my caliper bolts are already drilled for wire, I will take the extra precaution. Just consider this info in the spirit of keeping our babies in one piece, since when they are out there, they are singing their hearts out in more ways than one.

[daviid]

you cant safety wire R-clips to the bolts?

Down here I can, Down here for CCS im not even required wire caliper bolts. WERA allows clips in the caliperbolts.

[Paul_E_D]

mine fell off at the apex of 3...just as i got done trailbraking. something flew by my head so i looked down as i went through 4 and there was my caliper swaying in the breeze.

Mine wedged between the fork bottom and the spokes. Bike failed to slow and a shower of aluminum chips flew up in my face. Pretty confusing at 110mph with a corner fast approaching.

Surprising number of confessions in this thread...

[DucDave]

Surprising number of confessions in this thread...

...confession is good for the soul...

(so I've heard!)

[Awesome]

Down here I can, Down here for CCS im not even required wire caliper bolts. WERA allows clips in the caliperbolts.

The lead at tech for CCS in daytona spoke to me about their perspective on this, it was something along the lines of...

"If you want to clip your axles and calipers that's fine with us, it's your life, but you need to lock wire anything holding fluids, around here you can kill yourself with your own mistakes, not someone else."

[scubasteveRR]

The lead at tech for CCS in daytona spoke to me about their perspective on this, it was something along the lines of...

"If you want to clip your axles and calipers that's fine with us, it's your life, but you need to lock wire anything holding fluids, around here you can kill yourself with your own mistakes, not someone else."

I think that is a poor persective on this head techs part. If someone elses bolts fly off it doesn't always mean the person's bike they fell off of will be the person getting hurt.

This is a great example of that.

[Mondo]

I agree Steve, but Thierry also got a little banged up

[Awesome]

I think that is a poor persective on this head techs part. If someone elses bolts fly off it doesn't always mean the person's bike they fell off of will be the person getting hurt.

This is a great example of that.

This isn't a universal catch (meaning there is no always-never-everytime assurance for anything), however if you loose your brakes or a wheel, you're the person in the deepest danger. If you loose 4 quarts of synthetic a lot more people are impacted by it and endangered by it. What he was pointing out is that saftey wire is far more effective, however neither clips or saftey wire are meant to hold anything together, torque specs are.

[DucDave]

What are 'clips' in the caliper bolts? Not familiar with that? (Clips in the pads I understand...I think!)