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HD to buy Ducati?

  1. #1
    Lifer markbvt's Avatar
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    HD to buy Ducati?


    Strange bedfellows.

    HD offers to buy Ducati

    --mark

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  2. #2
    Powered by Kurtz theducman's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    One multistrada for sale here

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  3. #3
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Their 1st move would be to add weight to the engine and frame. Then a dab of chrome.

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  4. #4
    364 Beers Shy of a Liter Trajiks9's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    If rumor becomes fact Ducati

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    Last edited by Trajiks9; 06-21-17 at 07:14 PM.
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  5. #5
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    I actually think at some level this makes some sense.

    Both companies have a loyal customer base, that's really about more than just the bike, but the brand. While I agree that the brands are very different the fact that it is a brand is the key.

    Whether or not HD can maintain the 'Italianness' of the brand remains to be seen, but it's actually already German.

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  6. #6
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    If the outcome with EBR is any indication, this will not end well for the paesanos.

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  7. #7
    WMC original sdog30's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    You guys know HD used to own mv agusta for a minute, right?

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  8. #8
    Lifer Not Sure's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    HD to buy Ducati?-screen-shot-2017-06-21-a

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  9. #9
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    VW must be really hard up for cash.

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  10. #10
    Powered by Kurtz theducman's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by sdog30 View Post
    You guys know HD used to own mv agusta for a minute, right?
    That doesn't make it right lol

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  11. #11
    xxaarraa
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Trophy purchases like this can work well if the target is provided with an abundant supply of capital, old management cleaned up, operations and manufacturing leaned-out (particularly any old non-competitive union contracts or supplier relationships broken up), and the acquirer stays out of the way. Several examples abound of successful acquisitions that didn't dilute the brand of the target - e.g., Tata buying JLR, Bajaj buying a 50% stake in KTM, Lambo owned by Audi, etc.

    I'm not sure why people always harp on EBR. EBR never actually ever once in its history produce a commercially viable motorcycle. Great designs don't automatically make great products, and if you don't put commercially viable food on the table, you are going to get killed. Like EBR has been, multiple times over. So let's stop thinking of Buell as a victim, and move on to success stories, shall we?

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    Last edited by xxaarraa; 06-22-17 at 05:11 AM.

  12. #12
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    I see your lifestyle brand is as big as mine...

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  13. #13
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    It'll be a V-twin-apalooza!

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  14. #14
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Not harping on EBR. HD is directly responsible for EBR's struggles to become a commercially viable product. Read up on the business agreement for parts sourcing and the limitations placed upon EBR by HD.

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  15. #15
    xxaarraa
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by butcher bergs View Post
    Not harping on EBR. HD is directly responsible for EBR's struggles to become a commercially viable product. Read up on the business agreement for parts sourcing and the limitations placed upon EBR by HD.
    ehh, irrelevant. EBR signed on the dotted line and agreed to the terms. Besides, I am sure you have other explanations for why all of EBR's other JVs failed as well. Hero did this to them, HD did that to them. EBR martyr stories are getting old. Let the company die already.

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    Last edited by xxaarraa; 06-22-17 at 09:08 AM.

  16. #16
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Well, to be fair, Hero did absolutely take them behind the woodshed and beat them.

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  17. #17
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    BUT I WANT A 'MURICA SPORT BIKE

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    I went to MMI I know what Im doing here chief

  18. #18
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    If you wish to discuss the other JV's that's fine by me. I am commenting on HD's involvement with Buell and the limitations placed on that company which eventually resulted in the creation of EBR.

    After seeing how that all went down, I personally don't hold a whole lot of hope for the outcome of an HD-owned Ducati.

    Again, I encourage you to do some reading with regards to the history of Buell (not to be confused with EBR). It's a little more than "he signed on the dotted line".

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  19. #19
    Senior Member capitalcrew's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Agreed, Buell got fucked and by extension EBR as well, Harley held all of the patents on everything he came up with and Erik had to start from scratch with EBR AFAIK. It's pretty terrible, because ya.. I WANT MURIKA SPORT BIKE.

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  20. #20
    xxaarraa
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    Well, to be fair, Hero did absolutely take them behind the woodshed and beat them.
    Really? You know this?

    I don't know much about the Hero - EBR deal other than it never made sense, even to a 6 year old.

    • Hero sells 6 or 7 million tiny little runabouts, scooters, mopeds and 100cc - 150cc mass market bikes every year. These bikes are like roaches. You cannot kill them, they run forever, carry everything from people to dining tables and are only loosely related to motorcycles as we know them here. They make single digit horsepower. Not kidding.
    • EBR is a company with cool ideas for very high end sport bikes for racing or leisure riding, but never had a business model worth a nickel. Just cool brakes don't make bikes sell.
    • How both of these companies got together and said there is synergy in that deal is beyond me. Besides, the deal was worth $25M. Absolute peanuts in the auto industry. About the same that Honda probably spends in copier toner in their offices.
    • All I know from a distance is that Hero wanted technology consulting to move up market. EBR wanted cash. There was also talk of EBR distributing Hero bikes in North America, but I don't remember seeing any Hero products running around so that didn't happen (thankfully). Hero felt like they didn't get what they bargained for (consulting and distribution) so they pulled the plug. I don't see any wrong doing or emotion here. A bad deal went bad, and the guy with the cash walked away. Cest la vie.

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    Last edited by xxaarraa; 06-22-17 at 09:35 AM.

  21. #21
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Hero promised funding and never completed payment resulting in EBR WAY overextending themselves.

    As to how the deal came about: Hero used to have a partnership with Honda. Honda provided tech knowhow, Hero pumped it out in obscene volumes. Honda now competes directly in India leaving Hero fighting their parent with no engineering chops of their own. Meanwhile the Indina market is starting to become more sophisticated with a desire for larger bikes that don't look like 60s tech covered up by an early 90s bad plastic make over. EBR provided both styling and engineering resources to supply Hero with a much more modern platform to start growing around, but never paid for that work in full. Meanwhile, based on work done EBR had expected XXX amount of funding and as such spooled up an ambitious WSBK campaign. Payment never arrived, leaving EBR overextended and forced to firesale.

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  22. #22
    xxaarraa
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    EBR provided both styling and engineering resources to supply Hero with a much more modern platform to start growing around, but never paid for that work in full.
    Do you know that the platform was actually built and provided to Hero? That EBR actually delivered a viable product that Hero should pay for? I don't know that was done. Because Buell has a piss poor track record on that front.

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    Last edited by xxaarraa; 06-22-17 at 10:04 AM.

  23. #23
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?


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  24. #24
    Senior Member AEG's Avatar
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    HD to buy Ducati?

    Is this deal similar to what the American Budweiser attempting to buy the REAL Budweiser (Czech brewery from 18th century) ?

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  25. #25
    xxaarraa
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    Re: HD to buy Ducati?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    Come on Josh, showing a one-off 'concept' at a motorcycle show is far from EBR handing over a bike ready to roll off the assembly line. Reading that article, there is more talk of 'delays, redesigns and rethinking" Another way to look at this is EBR promising a bike, schematics and tooling but never delivering because they got busy living out fantasies in WSBK.

    The more you find out about this deal, the more it smells like Buell all over again - a great concept that never quite made it to commercially viable production.

    I am not saying Hero didn't screw over EBR. They very well could have. I am just saying if a guy files for bankruptcy over and over again, there's a good chance he is to blame for a lot of it.

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    Last edited by xxaarraa; 06-22-17 at 10:28 AM.

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