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Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

  1. #1
    Lifer akira700's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??


    from Superbike Planet

    Here is some very interesting technical stuff revealed
    by Yamaha engineers on the latest Moto GP technology.

    It reveals alot about big bang engine technology and
    also about how maybe GPS systems are used to change
    ignition mapping for each corner! Wow that's pretty cool
    stuff !

    Soup :: Ryder Notes: Big Bang By The Numbers :: 12-17-2007

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  2. #2
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Interesting.

    Thanks for sharing!

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  3. #3
    Resident Turkey Tricky Mike's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Cool article.
    and a cool shot of what a shagged tire really looks like:

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  4. #4
    Lifer RyanNicholson's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    thats by and large one of the most fascinating articles i've read in a LONG time, great find

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  5. #5
    Lifer akira700's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Yeah its nice to get under all the secrecy and find out
    about the technology that goes into this stuff.

    It'd be cool to hear about what happens in F1 too.
    I'm sure its even more mind blowing.

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    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Good article, but I'm a bit disapointed... They covered firing order and crank layout alterations for inline 4s and V4s, but nothing to tell me how to tweak the crank layout on my horizontal single...

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    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    And why isn't a V4 the superior design? I hafta think Yamaha is beating a dead horse with the I4 architecture...

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    Expatriated to Seoul spicy's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    so someone please explain to me how the 990 V5 worked, cuz i just cannot conceptualize the configuration at all

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  9. #9
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Think of a V4, now, take the back pair, add a third cylinder, and shift them sidewas so the middle piston is centered between the front pair.

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  10. #10
    Lifer
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Nice article!

    So does this mean there would be less rear tire slippage in the near future for those in MotoGP racing?

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  11. #11
    Lifer Pittenger5's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    I literally went cross eyed attempting to read and understand that article...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    My favorite was you going through T2 with your eyes closed.

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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    I read it too. It made some sense, but the irony is, the 800 Duc is reportedly set up with a "screamer" or even firing order engine. I do wonder the need of non-even firing order engines, if electronic traction controls keep maturing. I would really love to know how the Ducati was set up, relative to the Yamaha.

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  13. #13
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    It doesn't need to be a big bang because the V4 architecture cancels the inertia (or something...)

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  14. #14
    Lifer brewmaster's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    That is a great article. It is very interesting to realize that material technology is really driving this. Without lighter reciprocating parts these higher rpm's wouldn't be possible. It then become's an issue of controlling the fuel & spark at the new rpm. And then it effects the forces generated at (due too) that increased rpm, which in turn create a new set of harmonics. Fun stuff.

    I can't wait until the valves can be individually controlled. As in no cams just a very fancy, fast and precise soleniod. The computers are almost there to do the job but the mechanicals are not yet. The possibilites would be amazing!

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    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmaster View Post
    I can't wait until the valves can be individually controlled. As in no cams just a very fancy, fast and precise soleniod. The computers are almost there to do the job but the mechanicals are not yet. The possibilites would be amazing!
    I wrote an article theorizing what GP bikes would be like for a Motorcycle Daily contest on that very idea.

    Imagine a machine that combines a direct injected (fuel AND air) V4 motor using solenoid operated exhaust valves with a bit of Hybrid tech, computer controlled CVT for a transmission. Off the line the bike is a four stroke, with the Hybrid boosting torque and making sure the bike doesn't stall. Revs climb, the 'cam profile' alters to keep the bike making power. Hit a set RPM, the electric side of the Hybrid plant kicks back in for a moment while the motor transitions one bank to two stroke operation, build some revs, all for go to two stroke, and the revs just keep climbing. Power everywhere, all the pros of two and four strokes, non of the cons, and a hybrid system to help with traction control and modulating what could be potentially rough mode transitions. Plus your rear brakes could now be 99% modulated engine braking via the hybrid drive. If you want to get real futuristic, have the front wheel be 100% electric driven as well.

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    Lifer CMG241's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Quote Originally Posted by cras4u View Post
    Nice article!

    So does this mean there would be less rear tire slippage in the near future for those in MotoGP racing?
    As a fan I hope not - I love watching the rear ends come around out of corners doing a buck +

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  17. #17

    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Quote Originally Posted by CMG41 View Post
    As a fan I hope not - I love watching the rear ends come around out of corners doing a buck +
    The inevitable dumbing down of the bikes will likely result in a contest more of rider strength & stamina rather than skill & finesse, me thinks. The only good might be that ham-fisted crashers would toss it away less often? Could end up being as exciting to watch as those Turn Left events. Best burn those early GP500 tapes to DVD.

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  18. #18
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Then again, the most exciting races I've seen in the last few years have been 125 races. No slipping and sliding there, but incredible feats of bravery to make passes in the bends makes for exciting viewing IMO.

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  19. #19
    Lifer akira700's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Well I think Moto GP would be improved with electronic traction
    control removed. F1 is doing it why not Moto GP.

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  20. #20
    Member TegRacer324's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Hmm that is interesting. So what exactly is big bang engine theory as opposed to non big bang? Are they talking about having a longer stroke as opposed to revving it higher?

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  21. #21
    Lifer akira700's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Big Bang is where two or more cylinders fire simultaneously.
    I think the Duc V4 goes 1-2 then 3-4
    or 1-3 and 2-4.

    The ignition/cumbustion is the signal and the reverberations of the moving parts are the noise.
    Big Bang gives you more signal to cut through the noise according to the theory in the article.

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  22. #22
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    I don't think you can compare F1 and bikes. Even with better tech, the bikes will always be more exciting to race/watch because sliding on two wheels will always be crazier than sliding on four. Even with good electronics we will see sliding because corner speed will always induce slides on a 300 pluss pound bike. Not to mention, passing on two wheels will always be easier than passing on four...

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  23. #23

    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    I don't think you can compare F1 and bikes. Even with better tech, the bikes will always be more exciting to race/watch because sliding on two wheels will always be crazier than sliding on four. Even with good electronics we will see sliding because corner speed will always induce slides on a 300 pluss pound bike. Not to mention, passing on two wheels will always be easier than passing on four...
    However the racing pans out, I expect the rider on the bike with the more betterer engineering to outpace the rider on the so-so bike. And, I expect it to be a lot less spectacular. Kinda like the old NSR days, but sans Mick Doohan.

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  24. #24
    Member TegRacer324's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Quote Originally Posted by akira700 View Post
    Big Bang is where two or more cylinders fire simultaneously.
    I think the Duc V4 goes 1-2 then 3-4
    or 1-3 and 2-4.

    The ignition/cumbustion is the signal and the reverberations of the moving parts are the noise.
    Big Bang gives you more signal to cut through the noise according to the theory in the article.
    Ahhh alright I got the fact they were firing them 2 at a time didn't realize that was big bang though. Makes sense now though

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  25. #25
    Just Registered Crash Dummy Denno's Avatar
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    Moto GP: GPS controls ignition maps ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    I don't think you can compare F1 and bikes. Even with better tech, the bikes will always be more exciting to race/watch because sliding on two wheels will always be crazier than sliding on four. Even with good electronics we will see sliding because corner speed will always induce slides on a 300 pluss pound bike. Not to mention, passing on two wheels will always be easier than passing on four...
    while all that is true - i must say, I find myself gravitating toward the 125Gp, 250gp & WSBK as the races are more exciting... i have to say there is definitely something lost with these 800's... it feels a bit sterile watching (does that make any sense to anyone else?)

    anyone read the article in Roadracing World this month? the guy took 3 motoGP bikes out for a spin - in the end, he concluded that the GP bikes are "easier" to ride fast than any other bike... while the differences still come down to the rider's, i still believe MotoGP is in an age where "set-up" trumps all other variables...

    am I rambling?

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