[pbbbbt] lol @ H-D annual earnings report

[eboos]

Eric, was that you calling me earlier this week? I couldn't find my phone for a few days.....some 401 number?

Yeah, that was me. LOL. I was thinking "WTF!".

[butcher bergs]

Well, I have it again.

[a13x]

Their marketing and whole "brand image" BS is what really pisses me off, sadder still to see Ducati going the same route with the whole lifestyle thing. Guess it just doesn't pay the bills to simply be an OEM that makes good bikes that enthusiasts want.

Considering I was a Ducati Marketing Manager who has quite a few of his ideas currently in circulation I'm curious as to what you are referring to?

[crowspeed07]

All i know is this summer their should be a rocker c sitting in the garage and i cant wait.

[Tabby]

Considering I was a Ducati Marketing Manager who has quite a few of his ideas currently in circulation I'm curious as to what you are referring to?

Well I have to agree with Scottie on this. I don't know if this is being done overtly by Ducati or not. I keep getting a strong sense of Euro snobbery when I get around Ducati riders. More so on the street than the track. I was checking out some fellow's Duck not too long ago at some local strip mall. It was kitted out pretty well. Looked like it would be fun to ride. This fellow comes along, and of course like any of us, it's kinda cool when someone checks out your ride. We shoot the breeze a bit, and as soon as I tell him that I have an 86 GSXR, he acts like someone just dropped a turd in front of him. I'm muttering under my breath something to the tune about kicking his ass with my baby. Oh, and he did have healthy "Wanker strips" on his duck.
The clothes don't make the man,,,, neither does the bike!

[a13x]

Well I have to agree with Scottie on this. I don't know if this is being done overtly by Ducati or not. I keep getting a strong sense of Euro snobbery when I get around Ducati riders. More so on the street than the track. I was checking out some fellow's Duck not too long ago at some local strip mall. It was kitted out pretty well. Looked like it would be fun to ride. This fellow comes along, and of course like any of us, it's kinda cool when someone checks out your ride. We shoot the breeze a bit, and as soon as I tell him that I have an 86 GSXR, he acts like someone just dropped a turd in front of him. I'm muttering under my breath something to the tune about kicking his ass with my baby. Oh, and he did have healthy "Wanker strips" on his duck.
The clothes don't make the man,,,, neither does the bike!

Ducati snobbery is NOT a new development. That's been around for a long long time. I believe Scott was referring to something else.

[Punjistick]

Ya I think Scott was referring to the Ducati brand image and the trend it seems to be going. I remember there were Ducati Oakleys and USB thumb drives. Wasn't Ducati giving away ducati leathers if you bought a bike not too long ago too? I just seems like they are heading the direction of HD where people who might not even ride any motorcycle are buying the gear. I could be wrong though.

[Danz19899]

well it seems to me like the times are changing and HD doesnt want to keep up with the times

Their bikes are way to expensive and unreliable . . . and people finally figured it out. They arnt done yet and i hope the stay around since they are a great american icon.

However they need to get off there horse and make a good cheaper bike people can afford. Just having the HD logo wont do it these days

Also they might not like it but sportbikes are kinda taking over. just like HD did back in the 60's 70's . . . Its a generational thing i guess but they are going to have to actually make a quality product or they might not be around forever

[Chippertheripper]

I wouldn't say that HD's unreliability has anything to do with this. (because they aren't unreliable)

They have made poor business decisions (buying mv to begin with). They, recently, seem to be about 5 years behind the motorcycle market trends. And this economy is helping nobody's situation.

[orion899]

Harley Haters,
As the owner of a 30k mi. road king and previously a 85 fxrs I just don't get the relibility issue, I know before their evolution engines most riders I was with couldn't make it 100 mi. without something falling off ( I had a 70s 750 honda )
I think it's the harley goofy clone rider that think they're the badest thing on the road is the reason sport bike riders loath them. By the way I race a duc 749 and a SV so I see both sides. I ride my hawk gt to work, but if we're going on a long ride with my girl were taking the harley.
Harley's just another comp. that didn't prepare for the downside. They have been more diversified than commonly Known in the past. In the 80s the made bomb casings for the navy and when they got that contract their stock shot up and I was kicking myself for not buying at $7 a share
Anyhow, my bike has held up well with an oil change a year.
Mike

[Tabby]

Ducati snobbery is NOT a new development. That's been around for a long long time. I believe Scott was referring to something else.

I know it isn't new, but the brand marketing/imaging is making it more blatant.
Both Harley and Ducati marketing tickle the emotional side of things with "lifestyle" marketing. This appeals more to people who value form over function. That in turn lets some people, and I said some not all, indulge in some ego self inflation. Hey, if it turns a profit, there is nothing wrong with that. Since I haven't bought any NEW vehicles in a long time, I sit on the sidelines and watch. It is quite entertaining to watch marketing strategies get played out. Harley was vulnerable to the downside, before the recession hit. Any style based market can get saturated, then those looking for what ever constitutes the latest form of cool, move on. This sucks for Harley, but it is great for those who sincerely enjoy the machine{respectful nod to orion899!}. That gives them a wonderful used market.

[a13x]

I know it isn't new, but the brand marketing/imaging is making it more blatant.
Both Harley and Ducati marketing tickle the emotional side of things with "lifestyle" marketing. This appeals more to people who value form over function.

Still waiting for some specific examples when it comes to Ducati. I'm failing to see how running events and promotions around the culture side of the brand is a bad thing.

[markbvt]

I think one of the things that tends to turn off a lot of riders is the fact that much of Ducati's brand image seems to be fashion-oriented. Or more accurately, the image that Ducati tries to project for itself is fashion-oriented, which doesn't jibe with the way most motorcyclists actually think of the brand. When most of us think of Ducati, we think of performance bikes that handle great and look fantastic, and we couldn't care less about some unshaven dude like this:


For what it's worth, Triumph has the same problem. Most of their ads don't appeal at all to the vast majority of actual Triumph owners (or potential owners). It's like they're trying to attract poseurs instead of actual riders.

Forgive the blurry image, but here's an example:


What does this ad actually say to you? Looks to me like the bike broke down and the two models riding it have abandoned it in hopes of hitching a ride.

In Triumph's case, I attribute this to the fact that their marketing seems to be run out of Europe, and European marketing has never quite understood the US market. I suspect Ducati's fallen victim to the same thing, although Alex, since you worked for them, it would be really interesting to hear your assessment.

--mark

[butcher bergs]

Still waiting for some specific examples when it comes to Ducati. I'm failing to see how running events and promotions around the culture side of the brand is a bad thing.

As a consumer I'd love to give an example for you, and all IMHO mind you, as to what turned me off a bit when I was in between motorcycles.

If I were to buy a Ducati, I can't buy just a simple tank bag for my new motorcycle. I am basically forced to purchase a $350 Ducati-specific tank bag that isn't any better than the $120 bag Tour Master offers, which is just as effective. My other option is to have a custom tank bag made. Either way, if I'm looking for some extra storage or perhaps a map holder, my minimum buy-in is going to $300+ because I'm sure the Ducatis all *need* to be produced with plastic tanks which essentially renders magnetic tank bags unusable.

Now if I were some nose-in-the-air-I'm-better-than-you yuppie then I'd likely get off on the fact that I paid 300 bux for a bag with "Ducati" embroidered on it. It would make me hard just to know that I'm above those cheap Tour Master bags that "regular people" use and my special tank bag is proof of how wonderful I am.

< pinky finger in the air as he sips tea >

Not into it. I want a bike I can just ride without feeling like there's a requirement to prove how much greater I am than "common folk". That's the kinda culture which takes the fun out of the experience.....much like what H-D has managed to do over the years.

Let's not forget that H-D was once a "rider's bike". Fast forward to the present and now it's all about image and Ducati is heading right down that same path, IMHO.

[Rambunctous]

I have bought various apparel from Ducati and aftermarket items and it is not run of the mill crap. High priced? Yes. High quality? Yes. I have a Ducati jacket and a Tour Master and it is like a Obermeyer vs. a Columbia.

[Tabby]

a13x, please don't take any of this too seriously. In my opinion, marketers, doesn't matter what the product is, all try to find what ever is effective to move the product. Euro bikes tend to market towards the euro sophisticate image. Neat, efficient {BMW?} mixed with a romantic, devil may care style{Ducati?}, I know I'm making very broad generalizations here. Where as HD tends towards a rough and tumble, rebel without a clue, cough, cause, blue collar, americana. Regardless of the style, people who are image conscious, gravitate towards the image that they want to project. I'm not saying all of the people who buy these different machines are solely image conscious.
Those of us who are more function oriented {gearheads, racers, etc}, may be a bit immune from this, and in some cases perplexed by it. You may be brand loyal, but it is hard to be disrespectful towards a different brand of machine, if it can plainly do the job well. If it won the race, how can it possibly be a "POS". Image wanna be's have a hard time being that honest.

[Sheppo]

Where as HD tends towards a rough and tumble, rebel without a clue, cough, cause, blue collar, americana.

Those of us who are more function oriented {gearheads, racers, etc}, may be a bit immune from this, and in some cases perplexed by it. You may be brand loyal, but it is hard to be disrespectful towards a different brand of machine, if it can plainly do the job well.

A little contradiction?
Harley has won more AMA flat track races than any other brand out there. There current market strategy is NOT one for racing as much as it is for cruising. Which they do WELL.

[Rambunctous]

Just curious about flat track racing. Was this lately that HD was winning or the distant past?

[Sheppo]

Just curious about flat track racing. Was this lately that HD was winning or the distant past?

The XR750 has been dominant the last 30+ years...
and yes last year too the AMA Flat Track HEAVY has been HD.

[eboos]

Just curious about flat track racing. Was this lately that HD was winning or the distant past?

It's on going. Same with drag racing. Neither of these translate into street performance though. Also, Harley's attempts at marketing the performance side flat out SUCKS!

[obsolete]

Harley riders are fags. Not gay, fags. Gary Coleman said it's true.

[Sheppo]

#1 rider last year Jarred Mees
http://www.amaproracing.com/ft/rider...r.cfm?did=3414

[Tabby]

Flat track racing is its' own niche. I'm not at all current with what is going on now, so I can't comment. For years though, many felt that the AMA was in HD's pocket, with rules that favored HD and the XR. It wasn't until Honda, and the RS750 I believe, that put it to them. The RS was made to the letter of the rules, but with typical Honda engineering prowess behind those rules. It was pretty much a dominant machine. I'm guessing Honda proved their point, and pulled out. Those machines are still out there I think.
Drag racing, to me, as far as HD is concerned, is an utter joke. There are virtually no HD machines out there, that have much "HD" in them,,,, that are truly competitive against their Japanese peers. I had to laugh at the special drag race V-Rod. Oh wow, it can get into the 9's, and I think that was with wheely bars too. I've seen LOTS of stock wheel base, liter bikes and Busas running mid to upper 9's, that weren't modded to the hilt, from the factory or otherwise.

[Kurlon]

If I were to buy a Ducati, I can't buy just a simple tank bag for my new motorcycle. I am basically forced to purchase a $350 Ducati-specific tank bag that isn't any better than the $120 bag Tour Master offers, which is just as effective. My other option is to have a custom tank bag made. Either way, if I'm looking for some extra storage or perhaps a map holder, my minimum buy-in is going to $300+ because I'm sure the Ducatis all *need* to be produced with plastic tanks which essentially renders magnetic tank bags unusable.

Good news, Tour Master and many many others offer strap down bags too. Just because someone takes the time to make Ducati specific offerings that are tailored to the bike doesn't mean you can't use the same generic stuff that you can slap on any other brand if you want to.

And when you look at the reasons behind the shift to plastic tanks, given Ducati's design philosophy, yes they do need to use plastic. Lighter than metal, more flexible in how they can shape them, cheaper than fiberglass/carbon fiber, crash better than metal. If the only downside is they render magnetic bags useless, I don't see a problem? Ducati isn't the only one that thinks this way either.

[KawiSmurf]

Harley riders are fags. Not gay, fags. Gary Coleman said it's true.

No, it was Emmanuel Lewis...you know, Webster? Head editor of the dictionary?