RHINO Body Armor

[Stoneman]

Oh, and Fireball: You're welcome to come up and check 'em out first hand too...

[Stoneman]

Originally posted by FireBallF4i
Here's my two cents,

You all sound like a bunch of whining children. First of all there is already protective gear available for professional riders that protect them in the event of a crash. But then again, the PROFESSIONALS do it where they are suppose to.........on a track. They don’t have to worry about gravel, sand, innocent by standers, or slamming into a tree. Chucks body armor does nothing for another human life if they encounter a person traveling at the rate that Chuck seems to enjoy on public.......yes I said PUBLIC roads. Think about it.

Many of the products at MM and other distributors offer adequate protection for typical Sportbike riding.

Chuck forgot one important piece of the body. YOUR HEAD! Significant head trauma still occurs even though one is still utilizing DOT-SNELL approved headgear. The body is no good without the brain. If you have any doubts, check out the "bad news" thread at SRNE in the upcoming rides and events. I had the pleasure of riding with Mike.

The truth sucks I know. So flame away.

FireBallF4i

Is this what you call intellect?

[Stoneman]

Teee hee....'Josh and JC'....hee hee....

[GMAN226]

I think that this thread deserves a Fuckiddy Fuck Fuck Fuck......To complete the POINT.... JC Can we get one???

[GMAN226]

Thank You....

[Stoneman]

Originally posted by JC
fuckity fuck fuck FUCK!

So sayeth the shepard, so sayeth the flock...

[PinHead]

Fuckity fuck fuck fuck!

[snowborder]

Speaking of lurking on SRNE, it has been down since mid Saturday!

[snowborder]

oh yeah and Fireball you forgot a site that all this shit was posted on..... in addition to SRNE and here. I'll let you figure that out so you can flame over there too.

[Chuck]

Oh it deserves more than a profane response, so here goes. First, Fireball, you seem to be under the impression that professional racers do not sustain injuries. They do. In fact, Kevin Schwantz can no longer ride due to severe wrist fractures and Wayne Rainey is in a wheelchair, paralyzed for life due to a racing crash. While I respect the fact that the head is a critical body part and have already addressed the issue previously by stating that according to Snell, while they do not measure on the basis of mph impacting, but rather peak g decel, a currently available Snell 2000 helmet will withstand an impact of approximately 30mph-0, more than that and the peak g's are not sufficiently diffused. That being said, there are a vast number of fatal and life-altering injuries aside from head trauma, specifically injuries that occur paraspinally, both via cardio and cross pneumothorax. I too rode with a "Mike". He was wearing a cordura nylon jacket with company supplied "armor". During a ride, he lowsided. His bike bounced off a tree, striking him in the back at the C5-C6 cervical spine. He is now paralyzed from the mid-chest down. There is a great need for higher quality body armor, thus the reason for such development. I'm not going to waste time bantering back and forth, but, if you actually rode with the person who passed away from motorcycle accident related injuries recently, you are certainly not doing him any service in saying that the conventional protection is "good enough". If ANY injury can be eliminated or reduced, then that result will prove the venture worthwhile.

[Wayne-o]

To et al,

The fact of the matter is, .....is that I think you guy's are a good group of Mo Fo's. My reasoning behind my posting is not to let my stupidity stand out as my predominate feature, but to make people more aware of the consequences of riding beyond their ability. I have been riding my F4i since Dec 2001(6mos. My first street bike) and for sure I am extremely green. My approach to activities such as Sportbike riding is the same as I have used to other sports. Learn, learn it well and you won’t be a looser. I brought up Mike’s death only because I refuse to go through life like a racehorse with blinders on. I learned from his experience. I rode with him and I went to his funeral. His experience had a significant impact on me.

Today I did a ride with Jankster, my speed ranged from 30 to 90 mph on the country roads of NH and VT. The average speed was approximately 70 mph. The ride was enjoyable and pushed me to a new level. All that I have learned in the 6 months I have been riding flashed through my mind today.

Above all of the flame, if any, of what I have said makes just one rider think about what he/she is doing and prevents a tragedy, I feel as though it would be words well served.

Wayne

[Jank]

shit Wayne!! You hit 90!! Damn!! I was out front and I didn't hit 90!! LOL!! That's why you guys were staying back! You were just making me "feel" fast!! LOL!! Hehehehehe!!!

[Wayne-o]

hey Chris,

Thanks for the ride. Yes, I will confirm 90 mph two times as a minimum frequency of the event. I can't wait till next weekend. I had a great time.



Wayne

[Chuck]

Wayne, I posted the response before even realizing that FireBall was you. Given the fact that less than 30 days ago you were asking to ride with me and we've had several very nice chats in person before, I was kind of taken back by your post. I too have been impacted by the tragedies, but rather than focus a blame on speed or skill or the street v. track or ability or lack thereof, I chose to make a positive difference. Perhaps nothing would have saved your friend Mike, but Mike Negrete would have gotten up and walked away had he been wearing a better back protector. I won't debate the issue since it's moot, but I would think that if a recent death had any impact upon you at all, you'd be applauding the effort to prevent further injury and death.

[snowborder]

Everybody kiss and make up now! ehehe

[Wayne-o]

One last comment about all this and I am gonna put this thing to bed.

Statistically, the majority of motorcycle accidents occur because of rider error. I could give you numbers, but I don’t want to bore you with the details. Rider education and training coupled with quality protective gear (Chuck) would minimize injury and fatalities to riders. I stress that one is no good without the other. Kinda like a putting a soccer mom in a cage equipped with seatbelts and airbags that doesn’t have a clue about what she is doin. Not a good thing.

Everyone’s points are well taken and no harm done.

Wayne

[Stoneman]

Originally posted by FireBallF4i
One last comment about all this and I am gonna put this thing to bed.

Kinda like a putting a soccer mom in a cage equipped with seatbelts and airbags that doesn’t have a clue about what she is doin. Not a good thing.

Hee hee...we ALL know how bad THAT is too!

[benVFR]

Chuck,

Is this stuff going to be primarily Vests, etc.. or will you be able to get Rhino armor to replace the stock armor that was in your gear?

E.x. could I buy Rhino shoulder/elbow/knee pads to replace the ones in my Joe Rocket suit?

Also, you mention lots of interesting details about the construction of the armor, have you done any tests with regards to whether or not the design of the armor hampers rider movement, causes extra heat problems, etc.. ?

Thanks,
Ben

[Chuck]

Some excellent questions from people here. We've evaluated some of the equestrian vests. Many offer very good protection, far exceeding that of motorcycle body armor. The number one problem with them is the flexibility. Vests in general do not allow for the side to side motion so common to motorcycle riding, especially racing. In horse riding there is limited side-to-side movement -- mostly you canter forward. Second, it is difficult to get body armor that is one-piece (as in a vest) to conform to all body contact areas comfortably. Even if it is custom sized, the added bulk of side panels makes vests unsuitable for motorcycling applications. We are considering integrating the chest and back protectors to allow for a more uniform torso protection and have spent a lot of time focusing on protection as well as comfort. Riders will be able to move around with total comfort. We also just finalized design of unique hip armor that offers both hard and soft protection of the greater trochanter (the large hip bone). As far as heat is concerned, we are working on this and should have some answers by the end of the week. Anything you add, regardless how light or thin is going to add some level of insulation warmth -- certainly armor won't add the amount of heat of a leather suit, but it has to be bearable. We will be offering back protectors, chest protectors and hip armor initially. We may offer knee/shin, shoulder and elbow/forearm armor at some point, but are most concerned with spinal cord and rib/organ related injuries at the moment. I wanted a line of hip armor since I shattered my hip/femur joint while wearing what was considered to be pretty good protection. "Better than nothing" wasn't apparently much better since I didn't walk for months. Our hip armor was just tested and is so comfortable you don't even realize that you are wearing it. All of the body armor is being designed to replace existing armor and will be able to be "inserted" into your current clothing or leathers (assuming the clothing has a pocket and accepts armor); or you may wear the protection "strap-on" style. The back protector will feature a removable kidney belting system.

[Chuck]

Has nothing to do with holding your own on a track, I'm sure you ride well. Motorcycling involves much more side to side movement than horse riding. A vest cuts into the lower rib cage, making for an uncomfortable ride, race or track day, especially when going through turns. The protection offered by these vests, as I have stated is generally very good, it's just a matter of precise fit and stuffing a vest under leathers just doesn't work very well. Not to mention the more coverage, the more heat build-up, and by limiting the side ventilation, you'd sweat profusely.

[GMAN226]

Chuck,
what are the odds of one of the NESR Resident racers testing this equipment out? I don't know if you are doing hip and tailbone protection, as a future racer 7-6-02 with very bad hip problems this would be very attractive to me. Call me at work 401-604-2196 if you want to talk about it...

Thanks for your time

[Chuck]

Some real good points Tony. At some point I'd like to talk to you about your rib fractures. I broke 6 ribs and 3 connecting vertebrae and can tell anyone who hasn't -- you sure don't want to. Sneezing can be so painful.

Gerard, hip protection was one of my primary focuses since I shattered my hip/femur joint (amongst other bones) in a dirtbike crash. The hip armor will feature hard armor protection of the greater trochanter. The back protector will have full tailbone coverage, as well as kidney, scapula, spinal and vertebrae protection. The hip armor will feature hard armor protection of the greater trochanter. Work on the website is beginning by the end of the week so I'll be able to post in greater detail the specific features. Racers will be a primary user of the body armor. Generally speaking the greater the speed the greater the potential injury. While the track is considered safer as far as injuries go, the higher speeds of racers makes having the best protection an important consideration. I'll call you to chat further.

[Stoneman]

Why the fuck can't people just be happy that the local guy is gonna be producing something that could damn well be beneficial to us all? Why? No one is saying he's reinventing the wheel here. Just making a product that could potentially save lives...

I'm not Chuck's bestest bud or anything, so don't start on that angle. In fact, I've never even ridden with the guy. I just don't understand why discrediting this venture seems to be on everyone's priority list. Is it more beneficial that another product NOT be introduced to the motorcycling community? Someone please explain...

And don't try the 'it's already out there' angle either. Helmets are already out there, as are boots, gloves, leather, kevlar, rain gear, etc. But nobody gets up in arms when someone introduces a new version of the previously mentioned...

So, what the fuck is it about this that's putting Chuck in your crosshairs? I'm not stickin' up for the guy or anything either. He's a big boy and he's more than capable of taking care of himself. I just really wanna know what everyone's problem is with this. Honestly, what is it?

[Zuki650]

Personally I'm all for Chuck's new venture and I wish him the best of luck. Anything that furthers the safety of this sport works for me.

"I just really wanna know what everyone's problem is with this. Honestly, what is it?"

My thoughts:
When new products are introduced to the market we usually don't hear about them while there being developed (Well sometimes... ie: Spy Pictures of new bikes and the like) . Normally we see the finished product in a picture in a magazine with a write-up, or at a trade show etc. We can look at it, pick it up, try it on, bang it around a little and call up our local shop and ask them when there comming in. Chuck introduced a product that still being developed (probably to get an idea what people think about it) and there's nothing tangable for us to see or feel. I think this makes people uneasy and they naturally become skepticle the "I'll believe it when I see it" kind of thing.

This reminds me of the new Honda Interceptor. The headlines where all... "And they finally produced Hard bags for it" but no one could find any information about them. What did they look like? How do they attach? Now it's... don't hold your breath they may be available by the fall. Yea... I'll believe it when I see it!!!

Once Chuck's web site is up and we can see just exactly what it is that he's developing I think the skeptisism will subside. Then if Rhino armor get's some good reviews in the the trade mags and some people you know start using it everyone will say "I remember when that stuff was 1st being developed".

[twrayinma]

ditto that.
i don't see it as tryin' to trash the chuckster as much as trying to get a feel for what the armor's gonna be like, what it will and won't do, and why it's different/better from what's currently there... same as you'd do w/ two similar products in a store.

also, since it's in development, we have a chance to add our input as to what would be nice to have...
-t