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Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

  1. #26
    Senior Member capitalcrew's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?


    Minivans:
    •2015 Kia Sedona: 118 ft
    •2015 Toyota Sienna: 121 ft
    •2014 Chrysler T&C: 126 ft
    •2015 Honda Odyssey: 126 ft

    Sedans & Hatchbacks:
    •2014 Honda Civic: 118 ft
    •2012 Kia Rio: 119 ft
    •2013 Honda Accord: 117 ft
    •2014 Mazda 6: 121ft
    •2013 Toyota Camry: 120 ft
    •2014 BMW i3 eDrive: 108 ft
    •2015 Honda Fit: 127 ft

    Pickups:
    •2013 Ford F-150: 132 ft
    •2013 GMC Sierra 1500: 137 ft
    •2013 Chevy Silverado: 138 ft
    •2013 Ram 1500: 142 ft
    •2013 Nissan Titan: 144 ft
    •2013 Toyota Tundra: 150 ft

    Cars that will always win:
    •2011 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Carbon: 93 ft
    •2008 Ferrari 430 Scuderia: 93 ft
    •2012 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Centennial: 94 ft
    •2012 Lexus LFA: 94 ft
    •2010 Porsche 911 GT3: 94 ft
    •2010 Ferrari 16m Scuderia Spyder: 96 ft
    •2009 Audi R8 5.2: 96 ft
    •2008 Audi R8: 96 ft
    •2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1: 97 ft
    •2008 Dodge Viper ACR: 97 ft
    •2003 Dodge Viper SRT10: 97 ft
    •2011 Porsche 911 GT3 RS: 98 ft
    •2010 Lamborghini Murcielago LP670-4 SV: 98 ft
    •2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1: 98 ft
    •2008 Porsche 911 GT2: 98 ft
    •2011 Nissan GT-R: 99 ft
    •2010 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1: 99 ft
    •2010 Ferrari 458 Italia: 99 ft
    •2010 Porsche 911 Turbo: 99 ft
    •2009 Porsche Boxster S: 99 ft
    •2007 Porsche 911 GT3: 99 ft

    Superbikes:
    •2011 BMW S1000RR: 129 ft
    •2011 Ducati 1198: 141 ft
    •2011 Honda CBR1000RR: 134 ft
    •2011 Suzuki GSXR-1000: 140 ft
    •2011 KTM RC8R: 135 ft
    •2011 Kawasaki ZX10R: 129 ft
    •2011 Yamaha R1: 137 ft

    Supersports:
    •2011 Yamaha R6: 124 ft
    •2011 Honda CBR600RR: 126 ft
    •2011 Ducati 848 EVO: 127 ft
    •2011 Triumph 675R: 126 ft
    •2011 Suzuki GSXR-600: 122 ft

    Found this on an sv forum. Definitely relevant.

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  2. #27
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    I know those braking distances are published, but I always wonder if a racebike, and race rubber, with race pads and suspension to match perform that much better? It sure feels like my R6 stops faster than a minivan.
    4 contact patches vs 1. That short wheelbase doesn't do you any favors when braking. On a cruiser or tourer it might be 2 contact patches.

    Brings up another point. Track riding teaches us to stay (mostly) away from the rear brake. A short wheelbase sport bike with sticky front end rubber is doing 90-95% of its stopping with the front and sometimes floating the rear. Engaging rear brake can be a recipe for a high-side for most of us. I remember Scott G telling us about how he and Eric W were all about trying to find that extra 5-10% stopping power tangoing with the rear brake for a while, often with some hair raising outcomes when overdone. Now he advises most of us not bother on the track as the risk just isn't worth the reward; so much easier to keep that mental capacity to make time somewhere else. But on the street, with a longer wheelbase street bike running harder compound street tires the rear brake becomes much more important. I know my stops are much shorter and more confident when I add some rear on the street. I need to consciously re-train myself to use that rear brake though; the track riding had all but bred it out of me.

    It's even worse when dirt or supermoto riding. Keeping my foot in a position to utilize the rear brake and not riding with the balls of my feet on the pegs all the time is one of the things I've had to work hardest on when learning supermoto. 9/10 times I exit a corner thinking I could have used a tiny amount of rear to back the bike in but failed to because my foot was in the wrong place.

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  3. #28
    xxaarraa
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rada View Post
    I've gotten to the point where I seldom enjoy riding on the street.
    +1 on this sentiment. I see plenty of you up above who say "I ride like a grandma on the street" and all I can think of is "why bother?"

    Sitting in traffic, dodging massholes, zig zagging around bad roads, always watching the flaky new england weather... just don't see the point anymore. With other vehicles and hobbies competing for time, the opportunity cost of street riding a motorcycle is too high for me and in 3 years since giving it up, the appetite is still pretty flat. Haven't missed it at all.

    I shall go back to being quiet now.

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    Last edited by xxaarraa; 08-22-17 at 11:06 AM.

  4. #29
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    4 contact patches vs 1. That short wheelbase doesn't do you any favors when braking. On a cruiser or tourer it might be 2 contact patches.
    How many dong patches?

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  5. #30
    Resident Turkey Tricky Mike's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    Once I realized where the limit was on a modern, properly setup sportbike I realized the complete absurdity of trying to get anywhere near that limit on the street.

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  6. #31
    Lifer nt650hawk's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    another one here for more track days = Slower street riding.

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    Gino
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  7. #32
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    Sitting in traffic, dodging massholes, zig zagging around bad roads, always watching the flaky new england weather... just don't see the point anymore.
    There are plenty of spots in New England without traffic or massholes.
    The bad roads are sometimes a challenge. Enter ADV and dual-sport bikes!

    No, I still enjoy street riding.

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  8. #33
    Senior Member capitalcrew's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    +1 on this sentiment. I see plenty of you up above who say "I ride like a grandma on the street" and all I can think of is "why bother?"

    Sitting in traffic, dodging massholes, zig zagging around bad roads, always watching the flaky new england weather... just don't see the point anymore. With other vehicles and hobbies competing for time, the opportunity cost of street riding a motorcycle is too high for me and in 3 years since giving it up, the appetite is still pretty flat. Haven't missed it at all.

    I shall go back to being quiet now.
    I just like cruisin man. You're out in the open, enjoying being outside, experiencing your environment rather than being cut off from it. You can give it a little squirt once in a while without being anywhere near the edge. Dunno. I still enjoy it.

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  9. #34
    Lifer
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    Quote Originally Posted by klp View Post
    I don't subscribe to the "buy bike X and you will slow down". If you have the will you can do stupid stuff on the slowest of machines.
    And if it's more than just power limiting, you're basically reducing the bike's safety margins. I was behind a lower cruiser the other day on the highway in my car, and I was barely pushing the car through a sweeping turn and he was nearly scraping. If he decided to change lanes for whatever emergency reason, that was no longer an option.
    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftTone View Post
    There is a video on YouTube that put braking distance of novice rider, experience rider, and a car against each other. The car was able to comfortably push 1G during hard braking, the novice rider consistently push 0.4G and the experienced rider consistently pushed 0.7G. This was done at in a parking lot (controlled environment) where the rider/driver expected to do their best braking at a set marker. They also did it at different speeds.

    There will be variations of how much stopping power a rider can put down, however in a car a driver just has to stomp on the brake pedal. Most cars in the last 20 years have ABS. I would guess maybe 50% of bikes on the road today have ABS.
    I practice braking with mild regularity on the street and it's pretty difficult to feel like I'm getting the maximum from the bike. There's always a little surface variation, different pavement traction, a spot of sand etc. And it's so hard to have the guts to go full brake at 70, knowing that some day it's gonna lock and I won't react quick enough. Where ending up in the ditch could be the best case scenario.

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  10. #35
    Lifer RyanNicholson's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    I completely wrote off riding on the street until I borrowed (then bought) an ADV bike. It showed me there was more to enjoy about riding than just pushing limits like on the track. That said, I bought my Multi because it'll still rail a corner or launch like a super bike when I want to scratch that itch.

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  11. #36
    ...inside the van. loudog's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    Hey guys, long time.

    Most motorcycles with modern rubber can brake better than a passenger car. Looking at all the mag testing, the avg. bike can do about -1.0 g's. For comparison, most modern cars with ABS can do about -0.8 to -0.9 g's when you just romp on the brake pedal.

    However, as is the case with most things motorcycle, it depends more on rider skill as opposed to the bike. Very few riders can sustain -1.0 g braking...especially as they roll into the side of Ford Excursion, which usually causes riders to lose some of their finesse.

    Here is a good summary of what riders can actually do: www.louispeck.com/motorcycle-braking

    Hope that helps, and all you mofos are doing well!

    Lou

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    Last edited by loudog; 08-22-17 at 02:18 PM.
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  12. #37
    Day late, dollar short carsick's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    Holy cow Lou! Nobody expects real, accurate, useful data that's pertinent to the topic at hand! I enjoyed reading that link and subscribed in the hope that I can learn some more.

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  13. #38
    Your Father csmutty's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    Damn. Was just going to send you a link to this thread Lou!

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  14. #39
    Lifer nt650hawk's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    HA. Tested on a HAWK GT fers.


    LOU!

    bty I would have chosen another bike. the brakes are ........ o . k . at best.

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    Last edited by nt650hawk; 08-23-17 at 06:59 AM.
    Gino
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  15. #40
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    Quote Originally Posted by loudog View Post
    Most motorcycles with modern rubber can brake better than a passenger car. Looking at all the mag testing, the avg. bike can do about -1.0 g's. For comparison, most modern cars with ABS can do about -0.8 to -0.9 g's when you just romp on the brake pedal.
    That's interesting and tough to reconcile against the comparo and review data out there that suggests that sport bikes are stopping from 60-0 in the ~120-140 ft territory while Civics and Accords are under 120ft. (I took this from the same source capitalcrew linked, and others google found me.)

    Are magazine reviews somehow misleading here?


    The magazine reviews back up my own experiences on the road. I am ashamed to say I rear-ended an SUV one day while riding a few years ago. Mostly because of poor reaction time (I let myself get distracted), but also because the braking performance of my street bike just isn't as incredible as I tell myself it is.

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  16. #41
    no can kneedown feralchimp's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    I love riding slow and easy on the street. Two wheels just feels good, and it feels (way) safer than being on a bicycle.

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  17. #42
    ...inside the van. loudog's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    Bubba,

    Most sportbikes are in the 110-120 foot range. Some do get up there in the 130 or 140 range though. It depends a lot on the rider. Here are a few I have handy.

    2007 R1: 118 ft, 2006 CBR1000: 118 ft, 2011 Ninja 1000: 117 ft

    The braking distance is generally limited, for sport bikes, by the rear wheel coming up. As a result you'll see some cruisers with better numbers than sport bikes, which is counter intuitive. But they have a lower CG and longer wheelbase, so the rear stays down longer.

    I will say, my car braking numbers stated above are from actual testing I've done over the years, not magazine testing. So, I'm not exactly comparing apples to apples. I'm comparing motorcycle mag numbers to car numbers I've seen during testing.

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    Last edited by loudog; 08-23-17 at 08:40 PM.
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  18. #43
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    Here's the article that convinced me to get ABS brakes: Internet BMW Riders - No Fault Braking, A Real-World Comparison of ABS Systems

    Note a few things:

    • They are taking around 150 feet to stop from 60 on dry pavement at best.
    • Some less skilled riders took almost 200'.
    • Wet pavement distances were 278' to over 350' without ABS.
    • With ABS, wet pavement distances were 193-210.

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  19. #44
    its in my blood caloots's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    I'm literally fighting this issue and don't think I'm going to keep my bike registered.. the pace on the street to be safe is painfully slow now for me. I had no motivation to ride street this year..

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

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  20. #45
    Lifer Ken C's Avatar
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    Re: Street riding for track day enthusiasts - Whats your pace?

    I love riding on the street still. But, I admit that I'm unusual...I ride over 2,000 track miles a season. That means I get my superfast yayas out on a regular basis during track days and can easily turn the switch for sane street riding. I ride the street for travel and for adventure riding (and for coaching), not for fast sport riding.

    The bike I own does help some, but I'd ride the same even my street bike were a supersport. The Tiger 800 is more than capable of keeping up with any supersport on the street but it does have a more relaxed demeanor that encourages a relaxed pace. And I can explore dirt roads and trails. We're a good match.

    It's just to risky to ride excessively fast. Even Rossi would eventually die if he tried riding at the limits on the street. He may not exceed his personal limit of motorcycle control, but he cannot change the limits of the street environment, nor the reality of no runoff if things go wrong. The reward may seem worth the risk, but I assure you it's not.

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