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Tire Question?!

  1. #1
    Just Registered oreo_n2's Avatar
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    Tire Question?!


    Ok, so i switched from a 170 to a 180 on the rear of my bike this past winter. Overall i don't think i have the skills to take it to the limit and find the differences 'tween the two tires yet.
    But i do have a question on the matter. Now the skinnier the tire, the faster you can turn in, but with the wider tire, doesn't that increase you contact patch to provide faster speeds through the turn?

    Along those lines, faster speeds through the turn that is... whats the best way to brake? I am used to cars where i play the heel toe game to keep the weight of the car distributed on the proper wheels where the traction is necessary. So far with the bike i have been trying to balance the front and rear brakes to keep the ride height even between the front and rear? Should the front be pushed harder? To cause the nose to drop a little more or is that a bad idea cause you are putting a lot of force on the skinny little front tire?

    Ok enough babbling. catch you all later.

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    Brent LRRS #772
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  2. #2
    Administrator Frankenstein's Avatar
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    Tire Question?!

    I think the profile of a tire has more to do with contact patch than just the width. I'm on a set of 208 gp's now, which are noticably skinnier than the 207 zr's I'm used to running....and from the looks of the profile they should give a larger contact patch than the ZR's do.

    As far as braking....I do my damndest not to brake while IN a corner. I very rarely use my rear brake, and I never use it if I have to brake in a corner (hiside paranoia baby!)

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  3. #3
    Dic on
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    Tire Question?!

    Firstly, you made a mistake going to a 180. Your turn-in will be slower, and your ride height will PROBABLY (depending on the make of tire) be higher. The geometrical changes you have made to the bike may feel better, but will probably feel worse. Try it out and see if you like it, but usually the slimmer tire will feel better. I am changing the 190 on my RC51 to a 180 next week.

    Braking:
    Golden rule is %75 front-%25 rear. HOWEVER, if you are doing some serious canyon carving or on the track, you may very well not want to use the rear brake at all. I only use the rear brake to break out the rear tire and bring it around, and only on the track. I pretty much NEVER use the rear brake on the street. As for keeping the bike stable in the turns, and under braking, that is a function of the suspension, not the brakes. You should be finished braking before you enter a turn. Front end dive can be all but cured by having your suspension adjusted correctly. Most Jap bikes have fork springs designed for 200lb people. if you are in the 160-180lb range then they won't work for you, you need to get better springs (and progressive ones). The upshot is that your front tire will take an incredible amount of braking force before breaking free (in dry conditions in a straight line) so you should not worry about the front end dipping. If you have too much compression damping or too little rebound damping you might 'hop' the front tire over bumps though if you are braking hard.

    You see how suspension/tire type and size/riding style all interact? The best thing you can do is get your suspension sorted (tuned for your style through the adjusters) then go back to the stock 170 tire size and practice,practice,practice.

    YMMV
    Degsy

    [Edited on 4/8/02 by Degsy]

    [Edited on 4/8/02 by Degsy]

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  4. #4
    Just Registered oreo_n2's Avatar
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    Tire Question?!

    well, so far the new tire feels a lot better than the old ones. I think a big part of this is just the quality though. the old ones were in pretty rough shape when i put it away for the winter, they used to slip whenever the temp was under 70 on turns that weren't all that demanding. That was pretty scary a couple of times. This past weekend was not that warm and they were sticking a lot better than the old ones. As for turning in quicker... well i felt a little braver so i was willing to push it further... but the amount of time for the turn is was not a factor.
    Anyways, these new ones, are 180's but lower profile... the ride height is the same within a mm or two.

    Braking... i usually make sure i am done braking before i hit the turn, but i am still learning a lot about how much i can do. I really need to ride with some people that can really show me some things about guaging the turn before i get there. I gotta coupla friends i have ridden with... but they are learning at the same time as i am so its not the best learning experience. I am thinking i may just need to do something to the front suspension... cause it dips pretty bad right now when i hit that brake... nothing progressive about it.
    hmmmm, got me thinkin now.

    Well thanks for the input, hopefully i can meet up with you guys this weekend and learn a thing or two.




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    Brent LRRS #772
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  5. #5
    Lifer
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    Tire Question?!

    Isn't it natural for the front end to dip when you brake? As long as it's not bottoming out it's not a problem right?

    Mine dives quite a bit if I brake really hard but it's never bottomed out so I don't see it as a problem.

    Also, when you brake and the fork dives it changes the rake and trail and if you time your braking and initial turn in just right you can turn while the forks are compressed and the bike will turn in faster.

    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong...

    Ben

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  6. #6
    Just Registered TLRMan's Avatar
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    Tire Question?!

    Ben, unfortunatly, the SV doesn't come with any adjustment on the front end except for this year. There are spring and valve kits available for your weight for the SV, and it doesn't realy put a big dent in your pocket.
    Remember about the 75% - 25% Derek mentioned?
    sure you will change the geometry of the bike while braking, but the rear wheel is just about off the ground under hard conditions. It'll turn in really fast, and the ass end will try to pass you. There is a track technique called backing the bike into the turn, Derek does it all the time! I think? LOL.

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  7. #7
    Lifer
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    Tire Question?!

    I know there are kits. I changed the spring kit in the fork in my mountain bike, but I've never bottomed out the forks on my SV, and there are plenty of other things I could spend my money on...

    If I get to the point where there is something bothering me about my suspension I would consider changing it. I will also definitely consider changing the springs and/or fluid weight if/when the stuff I have wears out.

    I only weigh about 175 so that may contribute to me having no real complaints about my suspension.

    Stiffening up the spring rate and/or damping won't have any effect on braking anyway right? (Unless I hit a bump while braking, but I do try to watch out for that)

    Ben

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  8. #8
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Tire Question?!

    definitely consider changing the springs and/or fluid weight if/when the stuff I have wears out.

    that's my theory too, It's not necessary to fix somethin that ain't broken.

    Stiffening up the spring rate and/or damping won't have any effect on braking anyway right? (Unless I hit a bump while braking, but I do try to watch out for that)

    it will most definately affect your braking, better suspension = less front end dive = less pressure on your gonads against the tank under hard braking.

    I don't think it's necessary to use brakes on an SV, only emergency stops and final few feet at stop signs

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    RandyO
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