VT RT 17....two down

[Slyder]

No injuries, to the riders. Not even a scratch.

Anyone ever see my posts where I mention that damn road having some kinda dust / film on it? It took out a gixxer 600 earlier. We left from the top on our way down to Waitsfield and the woman riding her gixxer 6 did absolutely nothing wrong. Wasn't speeding, she wasn't too hot, kinda hot, or hot at all in the turn. No debris, dirt, gravel, oil, water, snow, bird shit, deer shit, nothing but that wonderful road surface that sucks so bad.

She lost the front tire.... just slid out and into the guard rail the bike went. She also wasn't on the brakes. She didn't fixate and panic. I honestly don't think the bike slid more than a few feet, but she wasn't going so slow that she just fell over.

She had helmet, coat, gloves and boots. Her jeans were fine, not even a slight tear. The fellow behind her, from Michigan on a V-strom fixated / tried avoiding her and locked wheels (hell ya you can lock a front wheel on that waste of a road) and he flopped it. The gixxer fairing was cracked, biggest problem was the mounting bracket for the headlight assembly cracked. Zippy ties and bungee net to the rescue. She rode it back to my parents house where another friends truck was, who happened to come up from Boston to ride...who just happened to be heading through Concord NH on the way home, so that worked out well.

So yea, anyone who feels like it ride that road, stop up top and run a few fingers across your tire. Then go ride down RT 100, 116, etc or something a few miles and stop. You'll see the dust / film from 17 on the edges, looking like chicken strips. The center of the tires will be nice and clean. No idea what the hell that stuff is, but be really damn careful on that road. I know some of you have dragged knees up there. Stop and see what you think of the blackish grayish dust that comes off your tires. If you still want to drag knees...well, honestly, I think your playing roulette. One of these times the cylinder is gonna be hot.

/rant

[F4Iguy]

good to know (about the surface). best of luck to the riders, hope everything turns out ok with them and their bikes. also, i know that (coming down 17, going into waitsfield), the bridge right before the gas station has a driveway before it that comes off the hill on the right. always washes out. you can't always see it, but it's like a fine beach sand that washes across the road. might as well be ice. its on a corner too, right before that bridge. took out a guy i work with on his Ape last summer, and he wasn't doing anything wrong either. he's fine, bike was relatively fine. bad stuff though. ride safe people!

[nerijusj]

Too bad the riders went down. Just talked about Rt. 17 and it's bad luck lately today with Jake.

[markbvt]

Sorry to hear about their offs; glad they weren't hurt.

I'm starting to wonder if sport tires are just super twitchy. Freak's crash on his ZX9 was totally unexpected too, in a completely different location; we attributed it to cold tires.

I run Avon RoadRiders on my Triumph (which are billed as a general-purpose tire, albeit a sticky one) and Bridgestone Battlewings on my V-Strom (90/10 dual-sport tire). Both of them grip hard on street surfaces, and not only when it's clean/dry/warm, but also in relatively cold weather, in the wet, and when Rt 17 has not only a mostly-invisible film on it, but a very obvious film. Ask Chiwawa444 and SVenpointsixtwo about my ground-flat footpeg nubbins, which they witnessed today on T Rd. I've never had a sudden, unexpected slide on these tires, even when leaning far.

My point in saying this is not to brag, but to underscore the fact that I'm not treating these tires with kid gloves. I ride them hard, and I'm a big guy at 260 pounds. If these non-sport tires will hold my fat ass on the line I've chosen, including the many times I've ridden the App Gap, I can't understand why tires engineered to be much stickier would let go.

Three possibilities come to mind: first, maybe sport tires have become so track-focused that they don't hold enough heat to work as well on the street as a tire that's not intended to ever go anywhere near the track.

Second, maybe it's a suspension setup problem. God knows 17 has a lot of cracks and bumps on it now...

Third, maybe that film sticks better to sport tires and essentially clogs them up/coats them, whereas it doesn't stick to regular street tires as much and therefore more of their rubber can remain in contact with the asphalt.

Or maybe I'm completely wrong about all of this. But I do find it a little ironic that these stories of sudden, unexpected loss of traction always seem to feature sportbikes and corresponding tires.

And by the way, Tyler, as long as I'm being all analytical and shit, not to put any blame on your work buddy who went down on that sand, but he did make a mistake: he tried to turn on the stuff at too high a speed. Sand is evil. If you can't cross over with the bike perfectly upright, you're probably going to go down...

--mark

[TIMMYDUCK]

I'll run 17 today and appraise the situation.

Wish me luck .

[MotoFreak]

Sorry to hear about their offs; glad they weren't hurt.

I'm starting to wonder if sport tires are just super twitchy. Freak's crash on his ZX9 was totally unexpected too, in a completely different location; we attributed it to cold tires.

And by the way, Tyler, as long as I'm being all analytical and shit, not to put any blame on your work buddy who went down on that sand, but he did make a mistake: he tried to turn on the stuff at too high a speed. Sand is evil. If you can't cross over with the bike perfectly upright, you're probably going to go down...

--mark

Yup, glad everyone is ok.
I'm still holding to the fact that the Dunslop Qualifier was not up to temp, I could feel her pushing, just let go faster than I could react at that time (and I was going too fast )

And yes, Bob was runnin too fast through that corner without checking the conditions...that first corner on the Waitsfuled side and the first on the Bristol side are both notorious for sand/gravel.

I'll run 17 today and appraise the situation.

Wish me luck .

Good Luck! I might see you up there today if I can get outta work before the T-Storms

[TIMMYDUCK]

Did 6 passes today on the Western side.

Coming off Huntington Rd on to 17 the 1st corner has a line of heavy gravel across it.

Lots of the edging they used on the new guardrails is in the road in all areas.

It does seem that the road has a lot of fine silt and sand on it, lots of tire spin but that is not to unusual for the Busa.

Didn't see anyone up there but me today.

[butcher bergs]

Anyone ever see my posts where I mention that damn road having some kinda dust / film on it?

Stop at picnic table corner and take a closer look. The actual surface is nearly perfectly smooth and I don't mean that it a good way.

Reach down and feel the surface. I did and haven't been back since.

[jcbell1007]

IMO the road was in much better shape 3 years ago. I've ridden it three times this year and have lost a lot of interest in riding it. Between the gravel in the corners, cracks in the pavement, frost heaves mid-corner, and the crazy ass trucks that drive that road, i've given up. not nearly as safe as it used to be.

[MotoFreak]

IMO the road was in much better shape 3 years ago. I've ridden it three times this year and have lost a lot of interest in riding it. Between the gravel in the corners, cracks in the pavement, frost heaves mid-corner, and the crazy ass trucks that drive that road, i've given up. not nearly as safe as it used to be.

All of that (minus the crazy ass trucks) are exactly the reason I've ridden it the most this year!

[Slyder]

Crazy ass cagers too. I've seen just as many cagers blow turns as bikes. While we were zippy tying fairing, some pinhead in a wagon rounded the same turn with tires screaming. I was waiting for the crunch of him hitting the guardrail, which never came. I'm quite sure he was left of center though. I should try to take a pic of my rear tire.

I agree though, a few years ago I had trouble sliding the rear tire coming out of turns...with even better tires on the 1k, I can slide it going into turns and I can come out of them holy friggin sideways. Anyone wanna learn how to power slide a bike...here's your road.

[F4Iguy]

And yes, Bob was runnin too fast through that corner without checking the conditions...that first corner on the Waitsfield side and the first on the Bristol side are both notorious for sand/gravel.

ok, my bad, i stand corrected. although i thought he said he never saw the sand. i almost didn't once. but remembered it just before i rode over it. felt a very small slip, and there wasn't even alot on the road. now i know.

[ThisBitch]

100, ftw!

[Dichotomous]

could that fine silt be rubber from sliding tires building up with dripped oil and such? it wouldnt wash away as easily as dirt, since a good hard rain SHOULD leave the road clean

[MotoFreak]

could that fine silt be rubber from sliding tires building up with dripped oil and such? it wouldnt wash away as easily as dirt, since a good hard rain SHOULD leave the road clean

Who knows...I ripped up 17 this afternoon, and at the top (coming from Waitsfield) my tires were greyish-white. "Huh" I said to myself.

Its just the conditions of that road...especially when it rains. The sand on the Mountain is very silt-like, and while you would think the rain would wash it away, it actually washes in onto the road, where it builds up. I didn't have any issues a all though coming up or going down...I wasn't going as fast as I usually do, but I was pushin a bit.

[Doc]

IMO the road was in much better shape 3 years ago. I've ridden it three times this year and have lost a lot of interest in riding it. Between the gravel in the corners, cracks in the pavement, frost heaves mid-corner, and the crazy ass trucks that drive that road, i've given up. not nearly as safe as it used to be.

It was even better 10 years ago.

[Slyder]

Who knows...I ripped up 17 this afternoon, and at the top (coming from Waitsfield) my tires were greyish-white. "Huh" I said to myself.

Thats the stuff. Grayish whitish and black to. The gixxer 6, I noticed after the fact had BT-014's on it. It must be an older 600. Those tires use to come on the 1k back before the BT-015's. Having read a pile of posts on "another" forum, people hated them. Beyond terrible. Even when hot I guess they sucked.

I've got the 002's and I can't get them to slide anywhere but 17. I can hammer on T rd till I get motion sick and have the rubber balled up on the sides of both tires, without one slide. I hit 17 and I can slide going into and coming out of whatever corner I want. I can straighten up after the turn and accel hard and spin the wheel.

I'll still go over it, as it's the quickest way to hit that side of the state, but I certainly don't push it anymore...not like a few years ago. I don't really remember it 10 years ago, but just a few it was much better. I should ask a friend if she's heard anything about the damage estimate. That isn't going to be cheap

[MotoFreak]

I think I had 14's on my R6...the worse rubber I've been on.
They'll probly total the bike. Insurance Companies LOVE to total em. Cool thing is, that if they do consider it a total loss, she can buy it back for cheap, and get her loan paid off with $$$ to fix up the bike.

Thats the stuff. Grayish whitish and black to. The gixxer 6, I noticed after the fact had BT-014's on it. It must be an older 600. Those tires use to come on the 1k back before the BT-015's. Having read a pile of posts on "another" forum, people hated them. Beyond terrible. Even when hot I guess they sucked.

I've got the 002's and I can't get them to slide anywhere but 17. I can hammer on T rd till I get motion sick and have the rubber balled up on the sides of both tires, without one slide. I hit 17 and I can slide going into and coming out of whatever corner I want. I can straighten up after the turn and accel hard and spin the wheel.

I'll still go over it, as it's the quickest way to hit that side of the state, but I certainly don't push it anymore...not like a few years ago. I don't really remember it 10 years ago, but just a few it was much better. I should ask a friend if she's heard anything about the damage estimate. That isn't going to be cheap