I-4 vs. V-twin

[The Crashing Tomato]

If you're in 6th at loudon it's because you are on a dyno somewhere in the paddocks.

all I can remember from listenign to you down @ VIR is thast you were bouncing the limiter coming down thru 17 and down the front straight on every lap.

you really should throw that tach in the garbage. be the Bike Noel see the bike Noel, Noel ... B - B - be the bike.

+1 Cerberus
I go with 16 - 46 on the Hawk and love the added punch when I'm coming out of the slower turns ( but then again ... they are only slow turns because I am slow)

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

*admittedly not an expert but..*
wouldn't that imply that he could go up 1-4 teeth in the rear to get more pull without sacificing top-speed ability on that track?

Sure He cold also paint it pink.

Noel should just ride the bike around Loudon as fast as he can Then make Changes to Gearing and other stuff. as His speed warrants.

You learn set-up by riding not by Thinking about it.

[Cerberus]

Sure He cold also paint it pink.

Noel should just ride the bike around Loudon as fast as he can Then make Changes to Gearing and other stuff. as His speed warrants.

You learn set-up by riding not by Thinking about it.

i respectfully disagree.

maybe its more of a combination of thought and trial/error

but unlike suspension set up which can be dialed to a rider's taste and evolve over time, gearing should always be set up to allow maximum acceleration without sacrificing the top speed (in my opinion).

[McBiggity]

Tricky thing with gearing for different tracks. You don't want to be in between gears. Or you don't want to be at a point where you need to upshift, only to downshift half a second later. The less time you spend shifting, the more time you are on the gas and accelerating. It may only be a fraction of a second, but that's racing.

[OreoGaborio]

gearing should always be set up to allow maximum acceleration without sacrificing the top speed (in my opinion).

Nope. not always.

As start getting faster, the location of your shift points starts changing & sometimes shift point location becomes your #1 priority. Thus, the only way to know what gearing YOU should be using is to get out there and actually use it. We can give you an estimate, but it may not work to your full advantage.


Extreme example: Jeff Wood did the 1:17 on an EX500 that was geared so tall that it only used 5 gears, not 6.

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

i respectfully disagree.

maybe its more of a combination of thought and trial/error

but unlike suspension set up which can be dialed to a rider's taste and evolve over time, gearing should always be set up to allow maximum acceleration without sacrificing the top speed (in my opinion).

Stock gearing has been tested by thousands of SV racers at loudon. Maximum acceleration usally is at the cost of traction. What good is a lower gearing if it keeps you from opening the throttle early as you can. Because of reduced traction.

I have a couple hundred Laps at pace laps around loudon on an Sv. and this is my expeirence.

[OreoGaborio]

FWIW, I THINK I'm geared at 16/47 (.3404) vs the stock 15/44 (.3409) which is barely a hair shorter, just w/ larger radius sprockets... but I'm not positive. I gotta double check that.

[Cerberus]

Tricky thing with gearing for different tracks. You don't want to be in between gears. Or you don't want to be at a point where you need to upshift, only to downshift half a second later. The less time you spend shifting, the more time you are on the gas and accelerating. It may only be a fraction of a second, but that's racing.

i would think that the fraction of a second that the extra shifts cost would be more than made up by the improved acceleration, balancing the cost in time against the benefit. dunno.. just a thought

Nope. not always.

As start getting faster, the location of your shift points starts changing & sometimes shift point location becomes your #1 priority. Thus, the only way to know what gearing YOU should be using is to get out there and actually use it. We can give you an estimate, but it may not work to your full advantage.

Extreme example: Jeff Wood did the 1:17 on an EX500 that was geared so tall that it only used 5 gears, not 6.

ok, i can see the shift location being a consideration to gearing choice..
but the jeff wood example is extremely extreme.. i mean fast is fast, pretty much no matter what.. he'd probably beat me around loudon if he was on a pit bike..

Stock gearing has been tested by thousands of SV racers at loudon. Maximum acceleration usally is at the cost of traction. What good is a lower gearing if it keeps you from opening the throttle early as you can. Because of reduced traction.

I have a couple hundred Laps at pace laps around loudon on an Sv. and this is my expeirence.

traction is always an issue, granted. but if you dialed in the gearing, the improved acceleration will be throughout the total speed range, not just at hard lean or exiting a turn where spinning up the rear is most likely (i would imagine), so i would think that the benefit would out weigh the need to modulate the throttle input..

**but to be clear, i'm not trying to say i'm right. i'm sharing opinion and learning where my opinions may be off base due to be theoretically based versus practical application

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

Maybe But what we are trying to do is Get a novice ready for his for his first race. Not win the Daytona 200 (stock gearing works good there too).

[BMFR6]

i would think that the fraction of a second that the extra shifts cost would be more than made up by the improved acceleration, balancing the cost in time against the benefit. dunno.. just a thought

thats debatable. the thing to keep in mind with acceleration is how soon you can actually use that improved acceleration. too much acceleration and for most of us you will be taking away speed because we are going to wait longer to roll on with authority for fear of being spit off the bike.

lets use t3 as an example. what is going to be faster?

a) 15/44 crack the throttle on at the pavement seams, aggresivley roll on so you are at full throttle right after you hit the transition

b) 15/50 crack the throttle at the seams, but because the bike is going to pull so much stronger, you can't get it wide open until you are past t4


*** and on a side note, stock is going to be fine your first season

edit: and when you really think about it, option A is going to be safest. you are on the gas, increasing your ground clearance and able to stand the bike up sooner

[KB]

When is the last time you have seen an SV highside and spit someone off?? It's like riding a dirtbike it doesn't have enough balls to spin the rear up, unless it's on ice or a wet line.

KB

[BMFR6]

When is the last time you have seen an SV highside and spit someone off?? It's like riding a dirtbike it doesn't have enough balls to spin the rear up, unless it's on ice or a wet line.

KB

yeah, but he's a novice...... the typical rules don't apply!

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

When is the last time you have seen an SV highside and spit someone off?? It's like riding a dirtbike it doesn't have enough balls to spin the rear up, unless it's on ice or a wet line.

KB

My SV would spin up all the time, It was built up but its the torque that does it.

Its not like riding a dirtbike at all, But you will be fun to watch if you think so

[OreoGaborio]

Wirelessly posted (Samsung Lube.... Er, Glyde: Mozilla/5.0 440x240 Samsung SCH-U940 NetFront/3.4)

[KB]

I will be fun to watch crash..............

and for the record if you watch doucet come down the front straight he hits 6th for about 2 seconds and then down shifts into one, I don't think he uses the brakes either.

KB

[brady]

I will be fun to watch crash..............

and for the record if you watch doucet come down the front straight he hits 6th for about 2 seconds and then down shifts into one, I don't think he uses the brakes either.

KB

Doucet is probably also an extreme example because he gets out of 12 so much faster that he has the speed to use 6th gear before T1?

edit: for the record, I don't know what I'm talking about either, but I have an SV and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once....

[Paul_E_D]

You don't really gear for the straight, you gear for the corners. Turns 3,6,and 12 at Loudon require huge drive to get good laptimes. You need to maximize entry speed AND drive out. That is the tricky part. If you gear low, you can't go in fast enough, gear high and you cant get out fast enough.

If you gear to top out at the end of the front straight, you might not be anywhere near where you need to be for 3,6,and 12.

I don't ride an SV, but I hear stock works well...

[The Crashing Tomato]

The Crash Judges of T3 gave me scores of 9.5, 9.1, 9.5, 9.5 following a late braking incident. KB try and beat that.

[KB]

The Crash Judges of T3 gave me scores of 9.5, 9.1, 9.5, 9.5 following a late braking incident. KB try and beat that.

I'll let you keep that award.

KB

[SilverDragon]

Down at VIR, I noticed that the SV wouldn't give me any more than about 8800 rpms in 6th gear on the long straight.

Sounds to me like you were drag limited. Happened to me on the 125 down there as well. I managed 12.5K in 6th and that was simply that. For kicks, I should have sat up a few times to see how much it slowed me down. Everywhere else it would rev as high as I'd dare. try tucking harder. It amazes me how much variation there is in straight line body position amongst riders, even racers on 600s at VIR were sitting like they were on a cruiser! On a track like VIR I believe it really can make a difference.

[OreoGaborio]

The Crash Judges of T3 gave me scores of 9.5, 9.1, 9.5, 9.5 following a late braking incident. KB try and beat that.

I dunno what they gave Dan when he crashed, but I was directly behind him & I gave him a perfect ten!!!

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

I dunno what they gave Dan when he crashed, but I was directly behind him & I gave him a perfect ten!!!

Key Word "Behind"

for completely wrong it was the best I could of hoped for.

[OreoGaborio]

Well I wasn't behind for long now was I? I finished the race, did you?

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

Well I wasn't behind for long now was I? I finished the race, did you?

I walked Away , And learned a valuable track lesson. Thats a victory of sorts

[OreoGaborio]

and it made for some awesome freakin pictures!

(you don't know how relieved I was that 1 - it pitched you into the grass so you didn't get run over & 2 - you were up on your feet the next time I came around.... I was damn worried bout ya for a lap after seeing that.)