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CCS Rule Updates for 2008

  1. #151
    Lifer Pittenger5's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008


    If they go PTwins the EXs are done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    My favorite was you going through T2 with your eyes closed.

  2. #152
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    IDK about that. a stock hawk and a stock EX? id say they would be close. maybe they could alter the rules a little like allowing aftermarket exhaust.

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  3. #153
    Lifer Pittenger5's Avatar
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    How many of the people up in arms have stock hawks? Legit question, I dont know.

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    Zip Tie Alley #505

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    My favorite was you going through T2 with your eyes closed.

  4. #154
    Goodbye Sweet Dreams BLACK SQUIRREL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pittenger5 View Post
    How many of the people up in arms have stock hawks? Legit question, I dont know.
    Me

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  5. #155
    Lifer Pittenger5's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    You have a stock Hawk? By your definition I have a green EX500 in the garage

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    Zip Tie Alley #505

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    My favorite was you going through T2 with your eyes closed.

  6. #156
    Just Registered Doc's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittenger5 View Post
    How many of the people up in arms have stock hawks? Legit question, I dont know.

    Oxx can go pound sand with his recurring wet dream about Hawks in LWSS or PTwins.
    ALL the Hawks at Loudon are Superbike spec. They would walk on PTwins and I dare say LWSS too.

    If your gonna allow em into those classes as such then fine... GREAT idea.

    If you want them back to stock it just won't work. They are to far gone at this point.

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  7. #157
    Just Registered 13's Avatar
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    How many classes will the SV now be fighting for the win in? Plenty more than most other bikes. ULSB now seems to equal LWSB, only SV's won't have competition. Looks like I took the last ever Hawk championship(just saying that for emphasis, not to take anything away from my fellow Hawkers).

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  8. #158
    Just Registered 13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    They would walk on PTwins and I dare say LWSS too.
    Ptwins, sure. LWSS, not so sure......

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    One of the former LRRS #13's

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  9. #159
    Everybody to the limit!
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    I think stock hawks would fit fine in LWSM. PTWN not so much. Even in stock form they are a much more captable ride than an EX500/GS500 which rules out PTWN. But LWSM, sure if they played by the rules which limit modifications, they would be a good bike. Competitive with the nonmodified motards, 250 two strokes, and various 400cc four cylinders. Us EX500s have always been outmatched but that's ok, we have PTWN.

    Heavily modified budget bikes will always be eclipsed by the newest round of heavily modified budget bikes. Once you allow modification, the sky is the limit and that's how it goes.

    Hawks should have a place to run and be competitive. But only stock hawks, heavily modified hawks should be relegated to the same fate that inevitably befalls all heavily modified bikes: eclipsed by newer models that benefit more from modification.

    What's that superbike spec 95 ZX6R competitive in? Nothing. That's the rub of modified bikes. Spend lots of money to be competitive in your class for a season or two then die out and fall to track duty as more capable bikes take over. Such is the life of a superbike spec racer. If you want a class to run in, put it back to stock. Otherwise, prepare to be overrun.

    But stock class hawks, yes, they should be put to pasture and have a nice cushy class to run out their old age, just like EX500s.

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  10. #160
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    Just look at all the modified EX500s. Once they were competitive in a few classes. Then came the SV. There just isn't room in this world for them anymore. The ones that survived have either been relegated to trackday duty, or put back to stock to serve as PTWN racers.

    I see the same fate befalling the Hawk. And it's not a bad fate. You had your day in the sun where a heavily modified hawk could run with other modifieds, now it's time to remove the fancy bits and settle in with the rest of the spec racers. I could see a future for them in LWSM. In superbike trim, not so much. Just like the "superbike" EX500s, the Hawk "superbike" is no longer a viable competitor...

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  11. #161
    Lifer Pittenger5's Avatar
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    Not competitive in LWSM? I took 2 fifths the last 2 weekends! EX power!

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    Zip Tie Alley #505

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    My favorite was you going through T2 with your eyes closed.

  12. #162
    Lifer nt650hawk's Avatar
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    I figured something would come out the way it did. My SB HAWK has the same HP as a SV. Fair enough. My request was for a spec SV motor in this class. Now lets open LWSS to the SB HAWKS. SV want to drop down into ULSB. Let others that are not competitive in ULSB now venture down to another class.

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    Gino
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  13. #163
    Just Registered Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honclfibr View Post
    I think stock hawks would fit fine in LWSM. PTWN not so much. Even in stock form they are a much more captable ride than an EX500/GS500 which rules out PTWN. But LWSM, sure if they played by the rules which limit modifications, they would be a good bike. Competitive with the nonmodified motards, 250 two strokes, and various 400cc four cylinders. Us EX500s have always been outmatched but that's ok, we have PTWN.

    Heavily modified budget bikes will always be eclipsed by the newest round of heavily modified budget bikes. Once you allow modification, the sky is the limit and that's how it goes.

    Hawks should have a place to run and be competitive. But only stock hawks, heavily modified hawks should be relegated to the same fate that inevitably befalls all heavily modified bikes: eclipsed by newer models that benefit more from modification.

    What's that superbike spec 95 ZX6R competitive in? Nothing. That's the rub of modified bikes. Spend lots of money to be competitive in your class for a season or two then die out and fall to track duty as more capable bikes take over. Such is the life of a superbike spec racer. If you want a class to run in, put it back to stock. Otherwise, prepare to be overrun.

    But stock class hawks, yes, they should be put to pasture and have a nice cushy class to run out their old age, just like EX500s.
    As much as I don't want to say this... the above post is Sad but true.

    For those that don't know the Hawk the stock front is CRAP, the rear shock is crap, the airbox is crap... the brakes suck and it would cost more to put these Hawks back to stock or in LWSM trim than it would to go out an buy a Track ready SV.

    Oh and Darell... you forgot the Duc 620 in your PTwins class. :

    The EX's days are numbered as well.

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    Last edited by Doc; 11-21-07 at 09:14 PM.
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  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    As much as I don't want to say this... the above post is Sad but true.

    For those that don't know the Hawk the stock front is CRAP, the rear shock is crap, the airbox is crap... the brakes suck and it would cost more to put these Hawks back to stock or in LWSM trim than it would to go out an buy a Track ready SV.

    Oh and Darell... you forgot the Duc 620 in your PTwins class. :

    The EX's days are numberd as well.
    That is the problem with the current situation. When the EX500-modification era started to go away, EXs were still being produced. It was fairly straightforward and cheap for a modified EX to be made PTWN legal.

    This is not the same situation with hawks, unfortunately. They were only produced for a short period of time and no new ones are being made. This is going to make it difficult for the hawk enthusiasts with SB-spec hawks to make their hawk legal for any type of spec racing. And since there are no new ones being made (and crashed), the interest in a hawk-competitive spec racing series is going to be limited.

    It's too bad, I can see a lot of enthusiasm from hawk riders and I wish that you could all be moved easily to a spec class that would allow you to be competitive. LWSM seems to be the likely candidate, again, were you able to easily make your bikes closer to stock. As it stands, I see bikes which are much like the modified EXs but don't have the manufacturing history and current production to justify a production class built around them. Sad, because I would very much enjoy running a production class Hawk in addition to a PTWN EX.

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  15. #165
    Just Registered Doc's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Well the issue with LWSM is engine size so if they would bump it from 515 to 650 or ideally 700 that might work. Then the Hawks could play in that class.

    LWSS won't work because of all the "Original Equipment issues"

    Shitty Mcbikefest is the EX/GS/ DUC 620 playground. If you allow a liquid cooled 650 in the class all hell is gonna break loose (BJ says he is for it though as long as you put the stock front back on)

    I just so Happen to have a Stock front for a Hawk.... Hmmmm?

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    Last edited by Doc; 11-21-07 at 10:53 PM.
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  16. #166
    Just Registered Doc's Avatar
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    Oh wait! I just looked. you are safe from the Hawk in Ptwins. It says you have to use the stock Exhaust. Those things are more rare than me on the Podium.

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  17. #167
    Goodbye Sweet Dreams BLACK SQUIRREL's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by nt650hawk View Post
    I figured something would come out the way it did. My SB HAWK has the same HP as a SV. Fair enough. My request was for a spec SV motor in this class. Now lets open LWSS to the SB HAWKS. SV want to drop down into ULSB. Let others that are not competitive in ULSB now venture down to another class.
    I would run LWSS/ But if the SV's come into ULSB Bring it. I will still race them My hawk is very close to a stock SV in power Maybe a little more maybe a little less. (More when mr. hord has his way with it this winter) But my hawk also is about 40/50 lbs lighter and turns far better then an SV. In the end I may win I might not But I will be a better rider either way. But I am gonna build my Hawk with them in Mind.

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  18. #168
    Just Registered smf's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    For those that don't know the Hawk the stock front is CRAP, the rear shock is crap, the airbox is crap... the brakes suck and it would cost more to put these Hawks back to stock or in LWSM trim than it would to go out an buy a Track ready SV.
    stock yes. add emulators and proper springs and it's damn decent. also add an ebc rotor and you'd be surprised how well it stops (i raced that setup once upon a time)

    btw, i see nothing wrong with allowing supersport spec SVs in ULSB. they perform pretty much the same as a 700 hawk. at that point it's the rider and hell, that's why we race, to see who the best rider is.

    i would really like it if we were allowed to ride-up into the LWSS class

    and i agree completely, our days have been numbered for a while. it looks like that number is shrinking more quickly now. i'll happily race my superbike-spec hawk in whatever classes are the best fit against whatever other machinery is out there. i would just rather have a 'fair fight' if given the choice

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  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by l3uddha View Post
    care to rephrase that?

    HP ain't gunna save you now!
    Can your bike with a ZX7 front run in Ptwins? Dare I say no?

    Guess your running ULSB with the Hawks!

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  20. #170
    Goodbye Sweet Dreams BLACK SQUIRREL's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Can your bike with a ZX7 front run in Ptwins? Dare I say no?

    Guess your running ULSB with the Hawks!
    Novice?

    go for it until your start winning

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  21. #171
    Just Registered Crash Dummy Denno's Avatar
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  22. #172
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smf View Post
    1)stock yes. add emulators and proper springs and it's damn decent. also add an ebc rotor and you'd be surprised how well it stops (i raced that setup once upon a time)

    2)btw, i see nothing wrong with allowing supersport spec SVs in ULSB. they perform pretty much the same as a 700 hawk. at that point it's the rider and hell, that's why we race, to see who the best rider is.

    3)i would really like it if we were allowed to ride-up into the LWSS class

    4)and i agree completely, our days have been numbered for a while. it looks like that number is shrinking more quickly now. i'll happily race my superbike-spec hawk in whatever classes are the best fit against whatever other machinery is out there. i would just rather have a 'fair fight' if given the choice
    1)i believe that it legal to change the shock (penske) and you can do whatever you want internally to the forks. upgrading brakes are easy.

    2)you cant mad if someone runs a SB in a SB class. my motor is stock. the only thing that makes it illegal for SS is the forks and slicks.

    3) nothing is stopping you. just change the forks and put DOTs on

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  23. #173
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Oxx can go pound sand with his recurring wet dream about Hawks in LWSS or PTwins.
    ALL the Hawks at Loudon are Superbike spec. They would walk on PTwins and I dare say LWSS too.

    If your gonna allow em into those classes as such then fine... GREAT idea.

    If you want them back to stock it just won't work. They are to far gone at this point.
    i didnt say anything about LWSS. hawks are legal in LWSS.(if you change the forks and put DOTs on) PT might be stretch, IDK if you could get that but LWSM should be easy to convince. if it werent for the PT class you wouldnt even see a EX up there racing in any class.

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    When I start my KTM in the morning, rules are broken. Its inevitable...
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  24. #174
    Goodbye Sweet Dreams BLACK SQUIRREL's Avatar
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    Looks like we will be ok Until Next year

    Got this this morn

    At this time we are delaying implementing the changes discussed for
    UlSB
    until 2009, the actual rules will be announced by mid-season if not
    sooner.


    Eric Kelcher
    Director of Competition
    Championship Cup Series
    American Sportbike Racing Association
    (817) 246-1127
    (817)246-2977 fax

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  25. #175
    Just Registered Doc's Avatar
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    That is smarter.

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