GP Shift

[Petorius]

I need to buy new rearsets, and I need some convincing to switch to GP shift. Downshifts are harder than upshifts. The only tricky upshift I make on the track is turns 4-5, and its really not that tricky. I make tricky downshifts into 11 and 1, and occasionally between 1a and 2 when I miss the downshift into 1.

Why would I not want to keep stomping my downshifts?

[JettaJayGLS]

Upshifts need to be timed with acceleration.

You will learn the exact number of down shifts you need for each corner. You can crank these out consecutively at the same time while using the front brake to slow you down and do not need to time them.

Watch the moto GP guys. All their downshifts are performed super fast at the same time.

This is the logic I have come up with to support GP shift, but I raced a motard and was perfectly fine with a standard shift pattern. We're talking a difference in hundredths, if not thousandths. Then again, saving time is saving time and if you need them anyway consider it free way of improving lap times. Marginal gains.

[rolker]

I see no reason to switch if regular shift works fine for you.

[maxim_X]

You answered your own question. The one place people use it at loudon is turn 7. I don't shift there personally.

[tsorfas]

You ride whatever you are comfortable with.
If standard is what you are used to stick with it.

[Petorius]

Looks like the critical component to switch the new standard Woodcraft SV rearsets to GP shift is only $38 on its own. I will confirm with Eric. Seems like there is an opportunity here for him to make a reversible component, although I'm sure that has already been considered.

[isaac_]

So, you're looking at the second (?) generation rearsets. The first generation was the same regardless of shift pattern but required you to invert the knuckle (?) if you want a GP shift pattern. In the event of a crash your shift rod would be exposed and likely to get bent. Hence this newer generation that maintains the orientation of the knuckle but changes how it connected at the rearset/shift lever.

[Petorius]

So, you're looking at the second (?) generation rearsets. The first generation was the same regardless of shift pattern but required you to invert the knuckle (?) if you want a GP shift pattern. In the event of a crash your shift rod would be exposed and likely to get bent. Hence this newer generation that maintains the orientation of the knuckle but changes how it connected at the rearset/shift lever.

Thats correct. There are two versions of the newer generation rearset, one that maintains standard shift (shift rod under the pedal pivot) and one that switches to GP shift (shift rod above the pedal pivot). From looking at pictures, I think the only differences are the piece pictured below (GP shift pictured, that is the back side of it) and a protective piece that sits just above the pedal end of the shift rod to prevent you from accidentally bumping the shift rod with your toe.

I am guessing that I can buy the standard shift version of the newer generation rearsets, then later purchase the piece pictured and the protective piece to switch to GP shift if I want to.

[Ductard]

I need to buy new rearsets, and I need some convincing to switch to GP shift. Downshifts are harder than upshifts. The only tricky upshift I make on the track is turns 4-5, and its really not that tricky. I make tricky downshifts into 11 and 1, and occasionally between 1a and 2 when I miss the downshift into 1.

Why would I not want to keep stomping my downshifts?

I got the GP shift rearsets for my 1199 when I was a total noob and thought "Why learn how to do something the un-fast way, then have to re-learn it. Might as well start out doing it the way the pros do."

Then I got a motard and an ice bike, and it takes too much concentration to remember which shift pattern I'm running, esp. when I might even be doing back-to-back races on the motard and the big bike. Unfortunately, the GP to standard conversion kit was more than $38 for me

Like others have said, just go with what you're comfortable with now. In the end my worrying about developing "muscle memory" for the standard shift pattern wouldn't have been that big of a deal anyways. If you ever find yourself really NEEDING GP shift (unlikely on any of the tracks I've ridden), it will cost $38 and probably half a day of practice to get used to it.

Last time I rode Loudon with GP I was in the 30's, so my shift points were probably totally different, and I wasn't really leaned over that far...but interestingly, where I liked it was actually in T-4 (a right hander) - where I found it easier to just reach down and tap the pedal rather than reaching to hook my foot under the peg. But, really more a matter laziness enablement than a true reduction in lap time.

[Petorius]

Last time I rode Loudon with GP I was in the 30's, so my shift points were probably totally different, and I wasn't really leaned over that far...but interestingly, where I liked it was actually in T-4 (a right hander) - where I found it easier to just reach down and tap the pedal rather than reaching to hook my foot under the peg. But, really more a matter laziness enablement than a true reduction in lap time.

That is the one spot where I would really like it, and also (embarrassingly) for the straight. I sometimes struggle with the shift from 4th-5th on the straight, but I probably wouldn't if I was stomping down.

[xxaarraa]

I like how you are asking about GP shift with only Loudon in mind. But I suppose that's natural since you are racing there.

My impression is that GP works better on fast tracks with really fast sections since tapping down is easier than getting your foot underneath and tapping up and then readjusting your foot position, all while moving at a good clip. When downshifting, you are almost always slowing down anyway, so jamming your foot underneath doesn't seem to cause that much heart ache.

If you didn't already have it, I'd say get a quick shifter first. I think that makes more of a positive difference than the regular or GP choice.

[Petorius]

If you didn't already have it, I'd say get a quick shifter first. I think that makes more of a positive difference than the regular or GP choice.

I'm only considering this because I now feel the need to buy new rearsets, regardless of which option I go with. If I can't switch easily/cheaply in the future, I want to make the correct long-term choice this time around.

[Paul_E_D]

If everyone did what they were comfortable with, no one would ever get faster! I'm not saying that GP shift will make you faster, but why not try it? You might prefer it.

[Petorius]

Damn you Paul, almost had my mind made up.

[xxaarraa]

I'm only considering this because I now feel the need to buy new rearsets, regardless of which option I go with. If I can't switch easily/cheaply in the future, I want to make the correct long-term choice this time around.

That makes sense.

If you do have a quick shifter, look into whether it's a push or pull type. That makes a difference in whether GP is a) available and b) how well it works. I went through this when converting the 848 to GP.

[isaac_]

I'd say get a quick shifter first

Curious why you would recommend this option.

[Petorius]

He means for my issue hitting 4th-5th on the straight, I think.

[CEO]

GP shift makes grabbing shifts while leaned over much easier in either direction since you have to move your foot less, "reach" less, etc... (on an SV, coming out of the bowl, big bonus, and driving up 4 hanging off the other side of the bike, big bonus).

Downshifting is typically done under braking, when your body is already in a position that makes it easy to access the lever in either direction... so you might as well do it in the less easy/convenient direction during this time, i.e. pull up.

I've ridden both... GP is preferred. If I could have changed my motard to GP I would have.

[isaac_]

...on an SV, coming out of the bowl, big bonus, ...

Just curious, are you catching the shift while you're leaned over to the left or as you're transitioning for 8 so you'd be more upright/slightly to the right...

[Petorius]

I don't even shift there, and I expect that I definitely won't feel the need to once I switch to the 46 tooth rear. CEO is on a 44 tooth rear.

[nhbubba]

I avoid GP for one simple reason : I have been riding for 20-ish years now and track riding my SV for 2-3 now. I have a crap load of muscle memory telling me stomp for downshifts and lift for upshifts. I'm a slow learner and a creature of habit sometimes. I am all but certain I would destroy something downshifting at the limiter through 4 or something.

You are smarter than I am Pete. Go GP and then tell me how much better it is.

[Paul_E_D]

I don't know about CEO, but in between 6 and 7 is normally where I need/like to grab that upshift. You are not at MAX lean, but gp shift is still helpful

[CEO]

Just curious, are you catching the shift while you're leaned over to the left or as you're transitioning for 8 so you'd be more upright/slightly to the right...

I short shift it while leaned over (between 6 and 7) so I don't have to do it during that transition, which can already be hairy if you are giving any bar input as you climb from left side of the bike to the right. Allows me to do a lot more WOT through that area without losing traction and can concentrate more on other things. Cornerspeed increases carrying this lower gear through 7, for me it seems.

I don't even shift there, and I expect that I definitely won't feel the need to once I switch to the 46 tooth rear. CEO is on a 44 tooth rear.

If you switch to a bigger gear, then it would be MORE necessary for you to shift there, because you will probably hit the rev limiter before the treehouse.

[Paul_E_D]

It's not hard to learn. It takes like a day to get your muscle memory changed up. Just do it at a trackday or something where there is no stress. It's not a complex action, and it is very intuitive once you make the switch.

[nhbubba]

I shift in 4 and don't touch the shifter again until 11.

I'm pretty slow. ...On the other hand... A lot of other guys say they do the same.

BTW: Your read on the differences between GP and regular shift kits matches my perception. I would definitely call them. May make this choice easier. $38 ain't much for the experience.