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I'm not either, bud. What is actually attainable for me is doing a F450 build, I'm fascinated with those things. You can hodge-podge them together or go to 450GP.com for a complete kit, just add dirt bike. That kit is about 6,000 euros (after adding the upgraded suspension options and some spares) and from the research I've done it doesn't look you can really save a ton of money by building it piece-wise. I'm not at a point where I can get back to racing right now from a time perspective, but I do want a really fucking cool track bike for track days.
Sorry, not to derail the topic entirely...I just really like this whole concept. Whether it's a nicely engineered road racer from Kramer, or a nicely packaged kit from 450GP, a big single weighing in at 250-275 pounds strikes me as being a ton of fun.
I went to MMI I know what Im doing here chief
I dunno...I've been loving my 600 the past couple of years for track day use. I ride it, put it away, repeat. I'm glad that my days of checking and actually having to adjust valves after every weekend is done with. I also would run maybe 1 track day a year and was too afraid to even add a GT race to a 4 sprint race weekend on a 450. I also did this my first year out of college on a shoe string budget...I couldn't even comprehend having a second bike.
I'm kind of the opposite of you. For a race bike, I want something small, nifty, unique, and cool as all hell. For a track day bike, I want the 600 and the power. I'm also not the track day rider that goes out at 100% every session.
Don't get me wrong. I adore the cool little bike. I think we both agree on that. Just disagree on use.
And to comment on the 450gp kits. I recall those a while back. I thought they didn't have the geometry figured out since they re-use the dirtbike frames.
Last edited by JettaJayGLS; 11-14-17 at 10:33 AM.
A man of many names...Jay, Gennaro, Gerry, etc.
There are absolutely geo issues with the F450 bikes, but the idea was they would race together as a class and not against other machines so sharing a handicap wouldn't be a deal breaker. Mixed in with other machines just turns them into even more expensive, worse performing motards. There is one running around LRRS with yellow plates IIRC, looks gorgeous.
Last edited by csmutty; 11-14-17 at 11:17 AM.
-Christian LRRS/CCS HasBeen ECK Racing
2011 Pit Bike Race CHAMPION!
LRRS/CCS Amateur #514 / RSP Racing / Woodcraft / MTAG Pirelli / Dyno Solutions / Tony's Track Days / Sport Bike Track Gear / 434racer / Brunetto T-Shirts / Knox / GMD Computrack
It means you do it as an unsecured loan instead of secured. If you've got a good credit score and reputation with the bank (Smaller banks / CUs work better for this) the rate won't be horrible. Alternatively you do it as a home equity loan and secure it against your house if you've got equity built up, lower rate and longer terms available. In both cases you're talking about something that you can end up leaving the remains of in the dumpster at the track on it's first day with no insurance backup so...
WOULD you want to finance it in the first place?
Regarding the geometry issues on the F450 bikes, it seems that RaceTech has that bit sorted out(?) So the problem with installing a sport bike front end is the forks are too short leading to a flat swing arm and not enough anti squat. RaceTech solves this by using stock dirt bike forks, shortening them internally, new fork bottoms, and a different set of triple clamps. See Here.
Now the issue as I see it here, assuming the above does indeed sort out geometry, is you end up spending a decent amount more to actually build the right bike. IMO the packaging that 450GP does is nice, the bodywork looks beautiful. If I were to actually look into doing this, I would purchase a complete bodywork package with all their hardware and add in their rearsets and gauges. Then do suspension through RaceTech, get a set of Marchesini (or similar) wheels, and run a traditional supermoto brake setup that jives with the fork bottoms RaceTech adds.
So...
450GP Parts: $2629.23
Wheels: $2500
Brakes:$1500
RaceTech Suspension: $3074.94
Misc Items (clip ons, chain and sprockets, shipping): $1000
Grand Total: $10,704.17 plus the cost of a donor bike
Now any decent used dirt bike is going to run $3-4k, so at this point we're talking almost $15 grand to put this together properly. Add into that the motor work that any MX bike will require to still be questionably reliable. I may have managed to completely talk myself out of this idea besides the romantic idea that it's just really fucking cool....and it absolutely is really fucking cool. It certainly starts making the Kramer pricing seem an awful lot more appealing.
Last edited by loudbeard; 11-14-17 at 11:34 AM.
I went to MMI I know what Im doing here chief
Also keep in mind that the F450 build I’ve spec’d is very much in line with the “S” model Kramer...which retails at $15,900.
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I went to MMI I know what Im doing here chief
Racetech has an expensive theory, you still end up with the back of the bike unhappy from the front being shortened Consider it a polished bag of assholes vs unpolished if you go for a straight sportbike front end. Ask me how much of a difference 15mm makes in the back on a dirty bike... At similar cost the Kramer should run circles around the F450 if they got their setup right.
15mm how? Where and what measurement out back?
Cliff's Cycles KTM
NETRA enduro B-vet
Close your eyes, look deep in your soul, step outside yourself and let your mind go.
15mm ride height difference in back, axle to muffler mounting bolt.
How does the 690 motor compare to Hondas Big Red Pig (650) or Yamaha's 660?
This is going to sound shocking, but I have done approximately zero research on big single thumpers outside of KTM RFS motors. So not kidding, I've no idea where the others stack on weight, output and reliability when pressed into road racing service, but I do remember the BRP being used in TZ250 chassis before, and the MZ Skorpions being popular at one time hence my curiosity.
I hope they're still making these in the event that I'm still physically able to ride at the age when I'll be able to afford one.
-Jared
ZX-4RR, R1200GSW, 701 E/SM, Hyperstrada 821 (FS!)
LRRS/CCS Amateur #514 / RSP Racing / Woodcraft / MTAG Pirelli / Dyno Solutions / Tony's Track Days / Sport Bike Track Gear / 434racer / Brunetto T-Shirts / Knox / GMD Computrack