moto3 speeds

[Paul_E_D]

Wow! They are reaching 138mph on the new 250F singles at qatar. That's better than I expected.

[Paul_E_D]

Although, at this moment they are 5 seconds off the 125 pace... and 11mph slower.

[scottieducati]

And they sound like a bunch of people farting their way around the track. *sigh*

[Paul_E_D]

I know, it's a far cry from the killer bees. I think they will eventually match the pace of a 125 at most tracks. I kinda think it should be 350cc's singles for moto3, 650cc twins for moto2, and 1000cc fours in motoGP... or something like that.

[scottieducati]

What do you think about Michael Czysz's recent article?

http://club.motoczysz.com/?p=768

[Paul_E_D]

I read that after you posted it. He has the right idea IMO, but I think the 250/500/750 model is a little off. 250 singles are too slow, 500 cc twins don't exist, and 750cc fours would be inferior to superbikes. Even though it is prototype racing, I think some connection to streetbikes should exist.

[scottieducati]

The 800cc formula surely rendered bikes quicker than super bikes... so I have to disagree there. I mainly like the point that the more measures you try to enforce as "restrictions" and the more rule changes, the less inclined anyone other than those very vested in the sport are to participate. I sure as hell wouldn't want to spend years of engine R&D only to have the rules changed before the ball is even rolling. I think Dorna is massively screwing the pooch with it's MotoGP rules, across the class, and it really sucks. There should be 8-10 different engine manufacturers in Moto2 if the rules were proper, instead we have glorified CBR600's... I'm just not that big a fan when things all start to become the same.

[Paul_E_D]

Agreed on the stable rules. That's just obvious. the 750cc thing is less obvious. I don't know if they could remain superior to the superbikes for long. They would become even more 250 like, which in my eyes isn't a bad thing. I thought the hair raising entry speeds and passes were more exciting than a bucking, sliding superbike. I'm torn on that issue, but in my eyes, motogp needs to remain the TOP of the pile. That means top speeds as well as laptimes.

[scottieducati]

So WSBK needs to limit allowable mods to the production 1000cc engines. I have no doubt a high-strung 750cc GP engine, with significantly lesser weight to deal with could eclipse SBKs if their state of tune was kept in check. Either way, it's ridiculous that the RSV4 is being masqueraded around as a ART/CRT bike in GP whilst being campaigned by the factory in WSBK. Although, I'll take all the V4 engines we can get...

[Paul_E_D]

That would eliminate all your corn fed americans from GP!

[scottieducati]

Have you seen Nicky Hayden lately???



Guy is tiny.

[Paul_E_D]

Speaking of Hayden, 3rd in FP1. He did a couple of fast laps in a row too. Still slower than the 800s... track is dusty yet.

[Paul_E_D]

Nicky's pace may not be that indicative. He threw in a fresh soft tire when the guys ahead and behind him did their times on old, hard compound hoops...

[CBR929RE]

but he's still way ahead of Rossi

[scottieducati]

Don't forget Barbera is up there too...

[OreoGaborio]

I agree with Paul that there should be a little more similarity between the "Moto" bikes and production bikes.
I like the sound of 450 singles, 650 (750 or maybe even 850) twins and 1000cc fours better.

[dhawks]

Wirelessly posted

Scottie, Paul, are you guys watching through the MotoGP video pass? I've had it in past years when it was a season pass, but haven't got around to it now that it's monthly. Much changed? Still worth it?

[Paul_E_D]

Yes, no, yes. The quality has gotten better and they have improved the layout/function of some pages, but its essentially the same. I didn't know it's monthly, I bought the season pass.

[ecd2004]

The problem with the 800's was that every extra HP was incredibly expensive because of how tightly they had to tune the engine to make 230hp, the bikes didnt slow down from the 990's and they arent much slower than the 1000's and that is because of the massive amount of money that was dumped into those engines. If they want to make GP cheaper the old saying "there's no replacement for displacement" is completely appropriate and the 1000's are a step in the right direction. What needs to be figured out next is engine development which Honda pours money into and the electronics which Yamaha pours money into, those are the two most expensive compnents but they cant go away because thats what the manufacturers want to develop and where they want to put there money.

Its a fine line that racing needs to walk between happy manufacturers and good racing, fortunately Dorna seems to be taking control of the sport back from the MSMA which will hopefully lead to a more racing-centric environment.

[Kurlon]

Why would the 1000s not be as highly tuned as the 800s? The same tricks they figured out for the 800s will translate to the new 1000s... you don't just magically forget them, nor do you assume everyone else in the paddoc is going to run mild motors so you can too.

[xsiliconkid]

moto 3 bikes testing in Jerez a couple of weeks back - equaled the 125 lap record.

From what I have read, they like the 250...more balanced, comes out of the corners harder, and can forgive a mistake....just not as quick mid corner......185 lbs and 48HP for the KTM

[Paul_E_D]

vs. 160 lbs 55 HP for the Aprilia 125. The 250Fs will be loads more forgiving.

[ecd2004]

Why would the 1000s not be as highly tuned as the 800s? The same tricks they figured out for the 800s will translate to the new 1000s... you don't just magically forget them, nor do you assume everyone else in the paddoc is going to run mild motors so you can too.

theres a limited amount of power that the bikes can put to the ground and its far easier to get to that number with a 1000cc engine than it is an 800cc engine and to make that amount of power while still adhering to the engine allocation rules is made that much easier. thats my belief at least.

[SVRACER01]

the moto 2 formula is working. no reason to change it

[ecd2004]

I love the racing but I dont love the format, I dont know why but I just cant love it