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NHMS Marketing

  1. #26

    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    Any club level motorsport regardless of wheel number is my question.
    I don't know. All I can tell you is that people want to see spectacular and crashing. And they want to see all of it. So closed circuit. Nitro circus, Xgames, arena cross. That's the shit popping.

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  2. #27
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Nothing other than NASCAR is a significant draw that I'm aware of Alex.

    Schedule: http://www.nhms.com/events/schedule/

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  3. #28
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    https://www.facebook.com/SMARSRACING

    These guys have it on lockdown. Last place wins enough to cover his entry fees. Fans line up for autographs. Not all two wheeled racing is lacking attendance.

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  4. #29
    Is this thing on? Mr. Kurtz's Avatar
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by jasnmar View Post
    Single day infield pass is $15 (good for Saturday or Sunday).
    Weekend infield pass is $25.

    Getting in after the track goes cold is free, as long as you aren't camping (there are extra fees for camping, I don't know what they are).

    Unfortunately the gate rarely knows these rules (I don't know why they don't know).
    Source? This has never been my experience.

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  5. #30
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    ^^
    I believe that was in response to my post, Mike....a suggestion and not an actual occurrence.

    EDIT: Jason, Friday still gets one access to the infield and one must pay for that access, racing or not.

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    Last edited by butcher bergs; 09-06-14 at 04:55 AM.

  6. #31
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Mike: I've done it multiple times. My wife has done it. You just have to tell them you'll be there for the evening, not for racing (and you have to show up after the track is cold).
    Paul: If you are doing Penguin or watching penguin, you have access to the infield and are not required to pay. Friday isn't racing. Thursday night bicycle guys isn't racing.

    Last weekend I was there all day Friday and didn't pay any gate fees until I showed up Saturday morning. I showed up Thursday night with a bike on a trailer. Said I was dropping stuff off for Penguin. Signed the waiver and went in. Left without a bike or trailer. I showed up Friday morning. Said I was there for penguin. Signed the waiver and went in. Left that evening. Showed up Saturday morning. Asked for a 2 day infield pass. Handed over $25 and signed the waiver and went in.

    The charge is for the event. The infield charge is more during the event. There is no generic infield charge during non-events.

    I guess I'm just very specific when I tell them what I need. "I'm here for penguin." "I'm here for a few hours this evening." "I need a single day infield pass." The point of this thread is still valid. As someone who knows nothing about this, I shouldn't be charged a random amount of money, but knowing what does and doesn't actually cost is better for us.

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  7. #32
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    i noticed at the beginning of the season that someone came by the dealership and put up a brochure holder full of LRRS pamphlets. i think ive got 2 of them here in the dealership. ive seen them at other dealers as well

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  8. #33
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by jasnmar View Post
    Nothing other than NASCAR is a significant draw that I'm aware of Alex.

    Schedule: http://www.nhms.com/events/schedule/
    I would be willing to bet this is the answer. Club racing doesn't have a significant draw, so expecting to do things like other club racing will not bring a crowd. I think bergs is on the right track with bigger grids because that will draw friends, which seems to be the majority of the crowd. The other way I would look at this is to mimic other "minor" league sports and try and attract fans that way. But the reality is LRRS is still a level below A baseball if you draw that comparison.

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  9. #34
    Day late, dollar short carsick's Avatar
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    I bet if we had a Fluffy the squirrel mascot that went around high-fiving folks and occasionally getting flattened the gate numbers would really swell.

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  10. #35
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by carsick View Post
    I bet if we had a Fluffy the squirrel mascot that went around high-fiving folks and occasionally getting flattened the gate numbers would really swell.


    The only mascot is a U.S. presidential mascot.

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  11. #36
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    https://www.facebook.com/SMARSRACING

    These guys have it on lockdown. Last place wins enough to cover his entry fees. Fans line up for autographs. Not all two wheeled racing is lacking attendance.
    That looks awesome. But, some airfence please!!

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  12. #37
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    Motor cross and arena cross specifically is the only two wheeled sport Americans enjoy. And even that is so low in attendance and revenue...
    Facts and figures to back this up?

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  13. #38

    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by a13x View Post
    Facts and figures to back this up?
    Personal opinion based on my observations and general talk.

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  14. #39
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by carsick View Post
    I bet if we had a Fluffy the squirrel mascot that went around high-fiving folks and occasionally getting flattened the gate numbers would really swell.

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  15. #40
    Mophead going grey dontpanic's Avatar
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    ^ Needs a brown shirt with a bullseye on the back.

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  16. #41
    Mophead going grey dontpanic's Avatar
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    I listen to WHEB's Morning Buzz quite a lot. Being a Clearchannel station, they have a tie-in to NASCAR and have Dick Bergren (sp?) on the air periodically.

    I often wonder if LRSS could tap into that somehow. It'd be great if a spokesperson could rep the series on the air.

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  17. #42
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    Personal opinion based on my observations and general talk.
    Feld owns Supercross. MX Sports holds the promotions rights to MX. Both are quite happy with attendance numbers and are operations that run in the black.

    What personal observations have led you to believe otherwise?

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  18. #43

    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by a13x View Post
    Feld owns Supercross. MX Sports holds the promotions rights to MX. Both are quite happy with attendance numbers and are operations that run in the black.

    What personal observations have led you to believe otherwise?
    So you actually agreeing or disagreeing with me? I'm not sure. I said MX is the form of two wheel racing Americans prefer.

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  19. #44
    A work in progress k_cotter's Avatar
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    I think Alex is saying the moto industry in the US is doing well sav, and is not in decline

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  20. #45

    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by k_cotter View Post
    I think Alex is saying the moto industry in the US is doing well sav, and is not in decline
    I'm sure it generates some revenue that's why so many companies are involved. But my IMO based only on random thoughts and observations is that it's not tbT great. If you compare it to cars, or team sports it's doing pretty bad. That's all.

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  21. #46
    Lifer backinthesaddle's Avatar
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    I was at daytona road races in 2013. The racing was ok and I actually enjoyed watching practice day. The crowds (wrong word) were small. So small that not only could you sit almost anywhere you wanted, and we bumped into people we knew without much difficulty. That flat track races were just about sold out in the stands both nights but that's not a big venue. The prices were very reasonable. I am told the sx really packs in the crowd unlike road racing. If you look at sx they run three events in Anaheim and any one event alone is way more attendance than the race days of the 200 and the super bikes.

    I think the reason is here, unlike Europe most kids don't aspire to be josh Hayes or Nicky Hayden. Or even know who they are unlike European kids who know Rossi and Marquez. Here They ride their dirt bikes and aspire to be Villopoto or Stewart. As a kid in the 70s I knew of Roberts but never aspired to be him. Where would a young Kid go to road race, back then and what parent outside of the sport would support them? I had visions of DeCoster, Smith, or Hannah and that was a tough enough sell. I didn't get to race mx until my later teens. The kids want to go to the sx and some of the yahoos want to go too and see the crashes, and then there are enthusiasts who go. And stadiums are usually convenient to get to and the viewing is great.

    I go to couple nesc mx a year. They have some decent crowds at central village. Most are friends and family, but there is also a minority who just like to see racing. Too me that's kind of cool and enjoy hearing their questions about classes and bike sizes, why is a 250 racing a 450, etc.

    All that said even the best attended 2 wheel events in the US pale to any of our team sports or golf for that matter. Just the other day I was talking about mx and road racing and someone told me they only want their kids to do athletic things. No sense in banging my head over it. I hope the new group can save ama racing but I don't know what you can do to get outside spectator interest in club racing. I even read some confusion on here about this is a superbike vs supersport and a 650 is a lightweight but a 600 is a middleweight, etc, never mind someone on the outside trying to make sense of things enough to follow it. Oh well it's after midnight and I am rambling.

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    Last edited by backinthesaddle; 09-08-14 at 11:19 PM.
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  22. #47
    Lifer a13x's Avatar
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    So you actually agreeing or disagreeing with me? I'm not sure. I said MX is the form of two wheel racing Americans prefer.
    disclaimer: this really isn't any sort of go at you tsorfas, just kind of kicking the ball around and your original comment sparked my curiosity. All in the spirit of disucssion. Cheers

    You said "Motor cross and arena cross specifically is the only two wheeled sport Americans enjoy." Okay got it. But it was followed with "And even that is so low in attendance and revenue..."

    It was the second part I was asking for clarification on. "low in attendance and revenue". Compared to what? Was a pretty vague statement as is. My point was the attendance numbers for supercross are not low in any metric you want to quantify it with. Anaheim 1 is sold out. There is such a huge turnout for the Atlanta race they added a second one this year, etc etc. Overall SX's average about 45,000 per event over 17 rounds. Those are good numbers by anyone's reckoning. The second part was 'revenue is down' which again I was curious about. There are a great number of quality teams and solid rides, nothing to sneeze at, with top guys making 7 figures.


    Switching topics, general musing:
    I also don't hold to the opinion that Americans don't like roadracing, meaning American motorcyclist. No, Americans don't like shitty products. American roadracing has been a fucking horrible product for 6 years. Yea the racing has been good but the actual PRODUCT and experience has sucked. I was EMBARRASSED to bring company executives to Daytona, the "BIGGEST RACE OF THE YEAR" (har har har) the last few years. Got to the point it wasn't even fun to be at AMA races. Last exciting AMA race I went to was New Jersey 2009, first year of that track, where there was a pretty good crowd.

    However, Indianapolis GP this year was off the hook. There was 62,000 on race day with total attendance around 110,000 over 3 days. Know what the attendance was on race day for Silverstone England this year? England... the bike crazy country. 67,000 on raceday. I've been to Silverstone 2011, Valencia (2011,2012), Catalunya 2013, Laguna Seca (2005-2013), Indianapolis 2011-2014, and Austin 2013 for Grand Prixs. Catalunya was #1 for awesome crowd and Indy 2014 was #2. IndyGP is #1 when it comes to overall vibe with a killer downtown, huge turnout of bikes, and all that jazz.

    So yea, Americans like roadracing, IMO, and I think it *can* be rebuilt into a viable product again domestically. Is roadracing ever going to be baseball, football, basketball, hockey? HELL NO. Waste of time even thinking about that. Shit soccer can't even get any play on mainstream TV (other than WC) and the numbers for soccer are huuuuge. There are 9 million registered motorcyclist in the US (out of 300 million) and 400,000 bikes sold per year (btw that number was about 1.2 million before the 2008 crash). We aren't ever going to be mainstream, that's okay, I just want to get us back to where we were in the late 90's!

    Topic at hand
    Marketing at NHMS. Fact is NHMS isn't going to put much effort into marketing club racing, any club racing. They are overworked and understaffed and they have 2 big races a year that they have to 'kill it' to justify their existence. NASCAR is actually been in a decline over the last few years so all hands on deck to sell those tickets. Club racing cars, bikes, horses, etc is something to keep the utility bills paid between NASCAR races. If you guys want to build fans and exposure with the club it's only going to happen two ways 1) the LRRS club does it or 2) the LRRS racers do it. Grassroots man. Think punk rock band. Target other riders. Forget about 'Joe Public and Soccer Mom USA'. Work on getting all the bike owners you personally know and see out to the races. Walk and talk at every bike night you go to, spread the word. You'd be amazed at how few riders know anything about racing. I remember being at a big bike night in New Jersey in 2009. Tons of guys. I was there with the Jordan team and the riders were inside signing autographs (they signed about 5). Outside was tons of dudes sitting on their bikes telling stories. I walked up to about a dozen guys "hey man cool bike you coming to the race tomorrow" "what race? what?" "uh the race 25 miles away at the new track, AMA Superbike, Michael Jordan team" TOTAL BLANK FACES. Mind you the track had been pumping this race pretty hard cause it was Year 1 and there were TV ads, billboards, all that shit. Dozen guys I talked to, no idea.

    I really have yet to meet a person who's come to a race and NOT liked it, it's just getting them there.

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    Last edited by a13x; 09-08-14 at 11:44 PM.

  23. #48
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    So you're saying I should put race numbers on my Goldwing?

    Excellent post.

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  24. #49

    Re: NHMS Marketing

    I 100% agree with your last statement. I have yet to meet someone who came to the races and didn't like it. If anything I push really hard to bring people to nhms lrrs and even other tracks I visit. Some here can confirm that for a single race who lives 2 hours away I have actually brought a lot of people over the 2 years iv been racing.

    Let me just explain some of my statements and where they come from.
    Revenue is low... Again I'm comparing to something like nascar. Yes it clearly costs a lot less to organize a SX race comparing to a NASCAR weekend and if it sells out that's impressive. You said 45k people. That's a great number and higher than I would have guessed. And I guess you can't really go higher given the size of the tracks, etc. But if you compare it to NASCAR /F1 where we talking 200k+ it sounds small doesn't it? That's all I meant. Any sold out event ksa success. Period!

    I happened to also be in Indy this year for moto GP. My statement that Americans don't like it was because the place was nearly empty. Yes I understand it's a massive track, which I think fits 250k+ people? While we were there both Saturday and Sunday attendance looked very low. Now you are telling me it was the 2nd highest in attendance GP event in the world this year. You know the numbers and you have a lot more experience than me. Respect. I was wrong.

    Another thing that lead me to my opinion which you covered was AMA. I say Americans don't like road racing cause they allowed that to fail. And let me explain that. You say it's a shitty product and shitty products cannot sell. Ok I understand that. Maybe the economy had something to do with it. Ok I can understand that. My only point is I am from Greece, where soccer is a religion. Even with the shitty economy, the cut off the season to half the races, banning fans from both teams attending the same event it still is the highest attendance sport and highest in popularity (TV time, talked among people, etc) in the country. So it is safe to say Greeks LOVE soccer. Comparing to that I said americans don't care about road racing. Again I could be wrong just trying to show you where I'm coming from.

    You showed some impressive numbers for sales N motorcyclists in US. I would have guessed nearly half those. Again uneducated guess. 9 million registered motorcyclists in a country of 350mil citizens it is a pretty small % though. But I understand it's a massive country with areas where riding is not even an option.


    This is not an "answer" to you. This is an attempt to show you where I'm coming from and how an uneducated on the topic person might be seeing things. You have a huge influence in the sport I love and you have done a lot for it, and for that I thank you. I am at the point in my life where I am trying to be more involved and help as well. I have reached out to schools to try to teach MSF and I have also spoken to track organizations and trying to get some work with them as well. Bringing people to the track and advertising out small race series I have been doing ever since I got my race license, I would hope more people did that.

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  25. #50
    I pick things up.... mzdagrl's Avatar
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    Re: NHMS Marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    I 100% agree with your last statement. I have yet to meet someone who came to the races and didn't like it. If anything I push really hard to bring people to nhms lrrs and even other tracks I visit. Some here can confirm that for a single race who lives 2 hours away I have actually brought a lot of people over the 2 years iv been racing.
    We all need to do this. The people I bring usually end up cornerworking, haha! I brought 2 guys to the classic who were completely enthralled but they haven't been back. Why? Because I havent been hounding them to come back. My cousin also went to the classic. He didnt even know there was racing, despite growing up in Laconia, and came down to check it out after I prodded him for a couple months. I don't even think he made it into the infield. We need to all be talking about it - get the numbers up, get people to come for the weekend and camp, and actually show them around when they get there - introduce them. They will feel much more invested after they get to know the guys on the grid. I'm a perfect example of this. Back in '05 I met Pete, who convinced me to come and check it out once. By '06 we were there every weekend because he took the time to introduce me around and get me to help him and his team out in the pits. We became good friends with the Cheap Bastids and LDR, and began cornerworking. I only stopped this year due to personal stuff, but I still come up and try to share my love of the races with everyone I know. I've only missed a handful of weekends in the last 9 years, all because *one person* took the time to invite me, show me around, and introduce me to people so I felt connected. It's a simple formula, but it does take time out of your race day to do it right.

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