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Hey all - in case that the announcement has not made it around, there is a rule meeting happening tomorrow at the Banquet Hotel at 3PM. Anyone who has anything that they feel needs addressing but cannot make it can leave that info here and I'll be checking back around noon tomorrow to gather a list if there is one.
I look forward to seeing everyone tomorrow night!
Looking over the proposed rulebook, here's my two cents:
Why is this a thing? I for example am a BIG proponent of Foggy Respro masks, they're about the only way I can keep from fogging my helmet into oblivion on humid days. My wearing them puts me in direct violation of this rule.Originally Posted by 7.1.11
Finally, the list is in the rule book, much appreciated. That said, the last line which I've marked in bold should be tossed. We're talking about a safety issue. The argument that "I didn't know what was legal 'cause I couldn't find a list" is no longer valid, it'll be in the rule book. So if you roll up to tech on Saturday morning with refined weasel squeezings in your radiator hoping Tech can do a pavement scuff test and send you along your way with a thumbs up, you should be smacked, shown the list and sent back to your pits. Giving a sample to Tech for later eval with hopes of it being approved for the next event is fine, but providing a cop out option is just going to keep us in the wild west as to who's got what in their bikes. I've emailed suggested text for this section before seeing this update, I think adding clarification that additives may only used at most at the MFG's dictated concentration is worth including. I've heard Grahame pester people on that during Tech Inspection.Originally Posted by 9.10
I have no problem with time limits on protesting results, but I'm going to counter with there needs to either be a time limit on getting preliminary results posted, or a minimum announcing standard for when they get put up. Even more so any protests / etc should also garner an announcement. Towards the end of 2016 there was an obvious effort by the announcer to call out results posting which is awesome. I see there is mention of the FM transmitter this year so that covers my other suggestion on the topic already.Originally Posted by 16.1.1
I too think the face mask rule is dumb, but was told the foggy masks are legal because the bottom is open, so technically your mouth is open.
14 Triumph Street Triple R, 18 TM 450SMX sumo, 15 Husky 250SXF tard, 14 KTM 250SXF and Cole's Grom
LRRS/CCS #66
Thank you to my sponsors: Sidi / AMSOIL / Klutch Industries
Eric just my 2 cents since I won't make it to the banquet:
If you cause a red flag you don't get points (results go based on the last lap and sometimes even the person who caused the red flag gets points due to last lap showing them active).
In my opinion a racer should only receive points by fully completing the length of the race too but I'm not sure how others would feel about that becoming a rule.
Isaac LRRS/CCS #871 ECK Racing | Spears Enterprises | GMD Computrack Boston | Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Woodcraft | Street & Competition | MTag-Pirelli | OnTrack Media
Bike: SV650, Bride of Frankenstein
"7.1.11
Breath Masks that cover both the mouth and nose may not be worn"
This was discussed many years ago at length. Don Hutchinson clearly stated that covering both the mouth and the nose with a mask will have you re breathing air you have exhaled. The rule stands.
"I too think the face mask rule is dumb, but was told the foggy masks are legal because the bottom is open, so technically your mouth is open."
As long as you are able to inhale fresh air after exhaling, you should be good to go. As stated above, Don was concerned about re breathing exhaled air. Back in the day, riders were either wearing cup like masks over the mouth and nose or making dams inside the helmets out of duct tape to divert breathing away from the shield.
Last edited by Johnny B; 02-03-17 at 09:25 PM.
Johnny B. (the other one) ®
Butler's Rest Home - "No Vacancy"
Super Motard Champ 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985
Visit the Rest Home: http://resthome.50megs.com
"Listen to your ass, it's giving you lots of information!" - Buddy Melges
The additives list is something I put together a few years ago using research on the net and swiping info from the WERA BBS. Upon getting the wording put into the rulebook this year, I double checked the websites of all the brands listed to verify that they were still non glycol as listed.
Note that I made a point of listing two additives that are NOT acceptable. I did this because at least one of them advertises themselves as legal for CCS/ASRA. They are even paying contingency in this year's Daytona 200. It contains Propylene Glycol so it is not legal for LRRS. (or WERA, too.)
The other one says that they are waterless. They also claim to protect to -40° and after carefully going through their website, I found the damning key phrase. "very slippery".
Johnny B. (the other one) ®
Butler's Rest Home - "No Vacancy"
Super Motard Champ 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985
Visit the Rest Home: http://resthome.50megs.com
"Listen to your ass, it's giving you lots of information!" - Buddy Melges
Isaac LRRS/CCS #871 ECK Racing | Spears Enterprises | GMD Computrack Boston | Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Woodcraft | Street & Competition | MTag-Pirelli | OnTrack Media
Bike: SV650, Bride of Frankenstein
So, in MotoGP/WSBK you absolutely still get points even if you don't go the full distance. Watch any rain race with lots of crashes even towards the end to see this happen. Riders will stay out even in crap conditions just to be further up the results in the race of attrition even if they are WAY off race pace.
On causing red flags, wasn't it Luthi (sp?) who caused a red flag in Moto3, re-gridded and still bagged second in one race?
So in motogp and wbsk you can do a lap and get points and if you cause a red flag and the race ends you get scored as the last completed round and get points?
Cliff's Cycles KTM
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Close your eyes, look deep in your soul, step outside yourself and let your mind go.
I'm sorry, but I don't get this at all. Surgeons wear masks that cover their noses and mouths and operate for endless hours. There is some "rebreathing" that happens in these masks. There's some rebreathing that happens to all people as they go about their day as well.
The Foggy mask is exactly a dam inside the helmet. That is exactly what it does. The only way to argue that the Foggy mask doesn't cover one's nose and mouth is to argue that a full face helmet doesn't cover one's face. If we agree that the top of the helmet is above one's nose, then a full face helmet covers the nose. The Foggy mask is intentionally formed to cover the nose. If we agree that the chin bar on a full face helmet covers one's chin, then unless we have someone with strange anatomy, where their mouth is below their chin, based on how the Foggy mask works it covers their mouth and is, by rule, illegal.
If the intent isn't to exclude it, please, by rule make it clear that Foggy type masks, and those that are substantially similar are allowed. I've used them on the street for years, but have quit races because of fogging as I believed them, specifically, to be excluded based on the rulebook.
Last edited by jasnmar; 02-04-17 at 12:07 AM.
NascarI personally have never heard of any Motorsport (or sport in general) where you get points by not completing the race/competition
How hard would it be to enforce pit out, pit in rules? This seems to be a issue every year and has major consequences if some one makes a very bad judgment call either going out wide into traffic on pit out or makes the huge mistake of changing there mind about pitting in then swinging back into the chicane or not putting your hand up and then swing left into the pits..
Can we have penalties for this infraction?
The foggy velcros to the inside of the helmet in front of your mouth, so as long as your helmet doesn't have a valance on the bottom that closes the bottom of the helmet in to your chin, the bottom where your mouth is is left open to fresh air.
I would agree it would be easier to add it as an exclusion to the rule so it's in their, though.
14 Triumph Street Triple R, 18 TM 450SMX sumo, 15 Husky 250SXF tard, 14 KTM 250SXF and Cole's Grom
LRRS/CCS #66
Thank you to my sponsors: Sidi / AMSOIL / Klutch Industries
A foggy visor is more dangerous than a second breath of the same air. It's not like you can contain a lung full of air in the space under your nose, there has to be some fresh air. I don't use the product personally, the pin lock works for me, but if it doesn't there shouldn't have to be a choice about having that diverted installed or not being able to see clearly.
I have no problem with the Foggy mask.
I believe that by rule, the way it is written today, it is illegal.
If it is not illegal, the rule needs to be clarified.
So, what was covered?
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Isaac LRRS/CCS #871 ECK Racing | Spears Enterprises | GMD Computrack Boston | Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Woodcraft | Street & Competition | MTag-Pirelli | OnTrack Media
Bike: SV650, Bride of Frankenstein
Johnny B. (the other one) ®
Butler's Rest Home - "No Vacancy"
Super Motard Champ 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985
Visit the Rest Home: http://resthome.50megs.com
"Listen to your ass, it's giving you lots of information!" - Buddy Melges
Johnny B. (the other one) ®
Butler's Rest Home - "No Vacancy"
Super Motard Champ 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985
Visit the Rest Home: http://resthome.50megs.com
"Listen to your ass, it's giving you lots of information!" - Buddy Melges