Where do you shift?

[Awesome]

Does the same go for the supersports?

I'm considering putting a slipper in my bone stock '03 600RR. What changes to my riding will I be making, how will the bike feel different (better/worse) and is it worth it.

[TTD]

I'll pop my dirt bike down a gear without the clutch if I find myself suddenly going too slow... like maybe up a rocky climb... and there's just too much else going on to worry about the clutch.

I NEVER downshift my streetbikes without the clutch. I just don't see the benefit.



And blipping the throttle while braking (without pulling in the clutch) sounds like you'd get some "lurching"?

[rebelpacket]

Originally posted by 35racer
I NEVER downshift my streetbikes without the clutch. I just don't see the benefit.
[/B]

Yes yes.. but what if your street bike just so happened to be a dirtbike?

I will admit, the motard stops faster than I can shift. Going into 3, its almost as if I slow down faster than I can pull in the clutch, bang down four gears, and let out the clutch.

[OreoGaborio]

Tony, if you don't do it right & over-blip, yeah, you'll get a little lurch... but if you get it right it's amazingly smooth.... unfortunately it's pretty tricky & takes up some of your thought processing to get it right... but when it works it's a great feeling.

It's a nasty habbit I've formed as a lazy man's way of reducing armp pump in my clutch hand during GT's when I first started racing... that was my benefit... But beacause I'm not consistantly smooth with it I don't clutchless downshift if I'm leaned way over. I get it done before I'm gettin close to full lean... you can see my shift points on my map above.

Getting back to being proficient w/ the clutch so i can downshift smoother while leaned way over is one of the #1 things i'm gonna work on in '07. When your times are within 105% of the top experts in your class, it's definitely gonna start holding you back.

[TTD]

Another reason I use the clutch is because I like the feeling of the engine braking AFTER I've started leaning into the corner.

In other words, I'll do the actual downshifting while mostly straight up and down, but I don't let the clutch fully out until I'm leaned over.

So I'm still trail braking (which slows the front), but I'm also feeding out the clutch (which slows the rear).

Not saying this is fast or right... just my way and I'm too damn old to change it now.

Having never had a transmission problem and never low siding entering a corner ... I'll stick with it.

[OreoGaborio]

do you still rev match while braking? or do you really use that rotational differential (or whatever you wanna call it) & just use that right hand for braking?

[TTD]

I used to rev match on my 95 CBR F3.

Then I switched to 2-strokes (TZ250) and found out you didn't need to blip the throttle.

Then I came back to 4-strokes (CBR600 RR), and the transmissions and clutches had gotten so good that I don't notice any benefit to blipping anymore.

[mmracer37]

My 636 doesn't have a slipper in it, so as I grab downshifts, I blip the throttle. I have no problems using the lever as the slipper. It's just much easier with the actual "back torque limiter".

Jay, same deal for big bikes too. Just kick it

[Paul_E_D]

Agreed, It's much smoother for me to not use the clutch, ever... Even on Tony's streetbike I don't use the clutch...

[Evil_Weasel]

when i switched from a 4-stroke to a 2-stroke i was origionally concerned with the lack of engine braking. afew people mentioned how weird it is or how strange it felt and i propbably wouldn't like it, it would take for ever to get used to, etc. after about 2 laps i was in love. braking and down shifting is so much easier to do smoothly. on the buell it was full cluctch and a huge blip for every shift and deal with the massive engine braking as best you can (be your own slipper clutch). with the buell i was in the same boat as alex....i could slow the bike with the brakes faster than i could smoothly down shift. on the NSR it's fan the clutch, and shift....that's it. no rear wheel hopping, no back end trying to pass the front. i can deffinatly concentrate more on my braking and less on my down shifting now.


yay two-strokes!!!

[SVRACER01]

i apply just enough clutch pressure for it work (shifting up or down) i dont have to blip much since my bike idles at or above 3K

[tenkate76]

So do racers with a slipper clutch notice an advantage (lap times)than without? It would seem as though a racer could focus on his/her brake markers, turn in markers, etc. without having to worry about locking up the back end.

[TTD]

Absolutely... given the choice, the slipper is going to be the way to go.

When all goes right, you may not need it.

But when the shit hits the fan and you're in the heat of battle, you sometimes don't exactly use proper technique... so a little help from the engineers is nice.

[Doc]

This is how I run it.

88 Honda Hawk
Stock gearing (16/44)

I try to do it just like this, but I think I have taller gearing 16/45

[KB]

I dunno i see Johnny Gosselin just hammering the gear shifter coming into the bowl and 3 and anywhere really and instead of it locking up it just goes nice and smooth. I think i want a slipper. I go from 5th to 3rd while on the brakes into 3, bang 2 gears let the clutch out smooth while trail braking to the apex, whack the throttle up to 4. Maybe the slipper would be nice no clutch brake and bang the shifter?

KB

[KB]

Does the same go for the supersports?

I'm considering putting a slipper in my bone stock '03 600RR. What changes to my riding will I be making, how will the bike feel different (better/worse) and is it worth it.

Doesn't the 600rr come with the, and I quote NAZO on this "kind of like a slipper clutch"??????

KB

[SVRACER01]

I try to do it just like this, but I think I have taller gearing 16/45

actually a 45 would be shorter

[SVRACER01]

ok. after this weekend ive changed some stuff.
SV6
14/44

[Doc]

actually a 45 would be shorter

Ok then shorter...

Paid more attention this weekend.

[oreo_n2]

KTM SMR 560... 6 speed. I like seeing the other 6 speed thumper shift points. they are NOTHING AT ALL like the 4 speed yz450 shift points i was using.

Its taking me quite a while to figure out when and where to shift with this bike. Alex... you shift to some real low gears man. Probably why you pull me on the exits so often.
i was talking with graham about it a while back and he kept saying lug it with higher corner speed. at the last track day i worked out a shift and corner speed combo that felt better than anything else to date that looked like this...

Goddamnit. I shift EVERYWHERE on that damn 'tard. I'm probrobly doing something wrong...

[Crash Dummy Denno]

I know the number of shifts is right... but they all might be one gear higher?



Honda 600rr -1 in front, +1 in back from stock

+1 - I don't feel like re-doing the map and this is me too
I'm on a 2001 R6 15-48 gearing (-1 front, stock rear)

[Ken C]

"Clutch-cam"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...00012951853484

[s a x m a n]

Jay, most of the guys running Hondas are using a 48. The only problem you gotta watch for is chain length/tire clearance. With the 48, if you try to keep the wheel as far forward as possible, the tire will rub on the shock linkage. It also depends on the tire manufacturer too. Just pay attention when you put it together.

is this -1 in the front as well when running the 48???

[RyanNicholson]

right now....my shift points are a little busy....i'm gunna go up to 49 or 50 teeth in the back to keep 3rd gear in the powerband around more of the track but this is what i was running this year....

2nd to 3rd to 4th on the straight
down to 2nd going into T1
up to 3rd exiting T2
town to 2nd into T3
up to 3rd exiting T4
down to 2nd into T6
up to 3rd exiting T6
down to 2nd into T11

sometimes I only get in 1 downshift into T1 so i have to go from 3rd to 2nd between 1A and T2

[Doc]

Bumpity as requested...