Lets talk brakes...

[BMFR6]

pete, i used the motul 600 fluid and galfer sbk lines and vesrah pads, always had great feel in my brakes. but i was also on a 1st gen sv, not sure what the master was.

[CBR929RE]

zip tie the lever.

that actually does nothing to fix a problem. it just compresses the fluid and any air trapped in the lines. once you take the zip tie off the fluid/air will decompress and the problem is still there.

[DuncanMoto]

Pete.
When you figure it out let me know.
1st off get some fresh RBF fluid in there and rebuild the master on the cheap.
Then sand your discs and bed some new Galfer HH pads. No need spending the crazy money on the new pad compounds for that application.

TedD.

[brady]

that actually does nothing to fix a problem. it just compresses the fluid and any air trapped in the lines. once you take the zip tie off the fluid/air will decompress and the problem is still there.

think they were assuming the zip tie was the first step of a bleed the next day?

[Danz19899]

just seems like a heat problem since your pushing the stock brakes a lot farther then designed for.

+1 on the brembo MC tho, the MC on Degsy's bike are great tons of stopping power and lots of feel

+1 on high end fluid that shits expensive but it works

[OreoGaborio]

It's not a heat problem if the lever is squishy when cold......

[Pittenger5]

Pete maybe you should draw a goatee on your bike? I bet its just jealous of yours

[lrrs313]

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I would try rebuilding the master or try a different one. Especially if the lever has always felt spongy. Fresh fluid always seemed to help on my KTM, but the biggest change I noticed (not counting the Brembo caliper I put on, since SS rules don't allow you to change calipers) was changing the master cylinder. Big difference in feel, way less spongy.

[Danz19899]

It's not a heat problem if the lever is squishy when cold......

ok well there has to be give somewhere, a rebuilt MC is a cheap option might also want to check on all you caliper seals and bolts to make sure there is no play.

i say find a cheap aftermarket MC it will be worth it

[Pittenger5]

Pete, I got a 2004 636 master laying around if you wanna try that. I dont have any idea what the fuck stats it is, but lemme know if you wanna try it.

[Awesome]

that actually does nothing to fix a problem. it just compresses the fluid and any air trapped in the lines. once you take the zip tie off the fluid/air will decompress and the problem is still there.

Oh really? Is this your expert opinion?

[Stromper]

Really try bleeding every banjo fitting, just like the brake bleeders little pressure crack then close

Keeping constant pressure has the bublles compressed so they can float up easier.

I had a master cylinder once that had a metal strip I assume to block the return flow from squirting up. Eventually it had somehow covered the hole it worked but could not be bleed it trpped air in the cylinder

With a little cleverness hoses plates rubber and clamps you can make a pressure gravity bleeder where the flow is fast enough to flush bubbles out.

When its cold a braking system should feel mechanical if not it needs to be bleed

[OreoGaborio]

In any case, I have a 17mm Nissin radial MC that I can give you. Try that out. If you like it, keep it. If you don't like it, just return it. If you are going to the awards dinner, I'll bring it with me and give it to you then.

Hmmm.... That's a possibility. The 17mm may have too much lever travel but I might want to give it a shot anyway.

Pete, I got a 2004 636 master laying around if you wanna try that. I dont have any idea what the fuck stats it is, but lemme know if you wanna try it.

Another Hmmm.... Nissin non-radial it looks like. Probably 19x18.

[daviid]

Pete, this is what i use for brake fluid. its good shit but pricey. It has a much higher boiling point then RBF600. I believe its catergorized as DOT 5.1

Amazon.com: Castrol SRF Brake Fluid: Automotive: Reviews, Prices & more

the Vesrah RJL's are great pads, but remember they heat cycle as well. How often are you replacing pads?

as far as the master, i have no complaints with my brembo 19x20. also the galfer superbike lines are pretty sweet as well.

[smf]

Pete, this is what i use for brake fluid. its good shit but pricey. It has a much higher boiling point then RBF600. I believe its catergorized as DOT 5.1

David's dead-on. kinda. it has a higher wet boiling point that rbf600, but not a higher dry boiling point, so it depends on how religious you are about bleeding your system with new fluid.

dry boiling point: The dry boiling point (when the fluid is fresh and contains no water) is the temperature at which the fluid turns to vapor.

wet boiling point: The wet boiling point (measured when the brake fluid contains 3.7% water) is related to how easily the brake fluid will absorb water (or how hydroscopic the fluid is). The lower the wet boiling point, the more water the fluid will absorb.

this page has more info: http://www.stealth316.com/2-brakefluid.htm

as an aside (like this part of the thread wasn't already), racers should be changing their fluid regularly regardless - but then I'm a bit neurotic about brakes.

[keeena]

Hmmm.... That's a possibility. The 17mm may have too much lever travel but I might want to give it a shot anyway.

Another Hmmm.... Nissin non-radial it looks like. Probably 19x18.

The 03-04 636 M/C has a 14 cast into the body; figured 14mm. I swapped to a 16mm radial R1 M/C but haven't had much time on it yet.

[blacklightning]

Thank you...
Hot or cold, the lever has always had more squish than I'd like,

Pete, sorry about your squishy lever problem. It takes courage to discuss this on a public forum.

[Pittenger5]

but then I'm a bit neurotic about brakes.

You mean your on/off switch?

[zx1012r]

Been there done this:

Biggest thing is the calipers. You need fresh newer stock ones. They float on pins that wear the aluminum sleeve and let the calipers cock (yes I said it) slightly at rest, which in turn pushes the pistons in slightly more, therefore more lever travel.

I use the stock heat dissipation plates on the pads to help keep heat out of the caliper. Seems to help.

I use a stock master cylinder (non remote reserviour) with kick ass high temp Motul fluid. (Not sure Brembo is SS legal).

Laugh if you want, but I love the STOCK Tokico HH pads. I can get 4 weekends out of them and they always feel great.

I had EBC rotors until the buttons wore into the carrier and made them sloppy. Swapped some stock rotors on midway through the year and was worried about them. They performed flawlessly the rest of the season and look flat and ready for another season.

My lever is rock hard with minimal travel, and stays that way no problem through a GTL and I never bled my brakes once this year.

Mark Dages 454

[Degsy]

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Plus 1 on the stock Suzuki pads. They are awesome.

[Paul_E_D]

You said rock hard and cock in the same post... wrong forum!

[nt650hawk]

I may be an odd ball or just too cheap.
My lever is just a tight if not tighter than some radial masters I've squuzed

On my Race bike.
I've stuck with a 1999-2001f4 series master (non Radial) with integrated reservoir. Past had dictated that I can not get back in a race if I go boom with a remote reservoir. The integrated reservoir can take a little bump better than the remote.

Stainless lines are of vintage area.
Calipers are from a 929. Don't forget to massage the pistons. That is my key and most important trick to keeping a nice tight lever. = Proper brake operation.


My Cats MEOW.......
Nice and progressive. Not that hard initial bite some other pads have. I like that more I squeeze the more I get. Very predictable.

Brake pads are:
C55 - Racing
# For superbikes with steel or cast iron front disc
# High performance at extreme track temperatures
# Constant reaction and grip in all conditions
# Very low wear rate (I AGREE 2 sets of pads in 6 YEARS)
# Low wear-rate on rotors
# Proven in World Supersport and Superbike competition


Rotors are
ABM

Ultra lightweight stainless steel rotor, with titaniumanodized aluminum Floaters & Carrier.

New design stainless steel rotor. This ABM rotor uses a new proprietary blend of stainless steel, available at Spiegler, that performs as well as iron, with all the benefits of stainless. Couple this with an all new ultra lightweight design carrier, and you have a new benchmark in motorcycle braking performance. Available now in full floating configurations, for most popular sport bikes.

Floater
Hard anodized aluminum floater, semi or full floating to allow for expansion and contraction of the rotor and carrier. This also allows for axial and radial movement of the rotor. All of this results in a better braking response by compensating for brake disc and carrier movement.

Carrier
CNC-machined, high grade aluminum, titanium anodized.


All flowing with RBF 600

[PainfullySlow]

It would be difficult now that the track season is all but over but you could give my SV a shot. I am running the R6 brembo master and R1 calipers. I get fade from heavy braking which I know is the crappy off the shelf fluid I am running however I get great feel and a rock-solid lever. Tremendous feedback. I dont know if this helps you since I am not running SS legal calipers but it would at least give you an idea of lever feel.

[Jonny Rocket]

Pete,

Get a new bike.

LOL

Seriously, if you are having issues with your current brake system, you will eventually replace all of it. I would fully rebuild the calipers and replace the master cylinder to start.

[CBR929RE]

Oh really? Is this your expert opinion?

a friend with over 40 years of motorcycle experience with many being racing experience. he knows his shit. and I've also tried it and it seen it first hand do nothing. doesn't take much thought to understand how holding the lever in does nothing to actually fix a problem. people do it to get air out of the system but it doesn't get air out of the system. if the air is gonna float to the top its gonna do it regardless of whether the lever is in or out. I can see where holding it might open up the flow in the master and get the air just that little bit higher. I know on my Brembo it doesn't work that way though. got almost all the air out just by squeezing the hose to the reservoir and pumping the lever.