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"I'd rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow"
Bikes: Ducati: 748 (Track) Honda: RC31 (Race/street)/ CRF 110 Mini Moto/ Hawk Endurance Racer Kawasaki: ZXR1200R
BOMO Instructor
EX# X
Agreed... but then you gotta figure just how much risk they're taking
fast guy 'A' who risks a lot & likely crashes a lot has big balls
equally fast guy 'B' who risks little and likely crashes little has skill
"To finish first, one must first finish"![]()
Last edited by OreoGaborio; 12-06-10 at 07:59 PM.
-Pete LRRS/CCS #81 - ECK Racing, TonysTrackDays
GMD Computrack Boston | Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Phoenix Graphics | Woodcraft | MTag-Pirelli | OnTrack Media
The Garage: '03 Tuono | '06 SV650
I don't know about "equally"... Fast guy A could have "skill" but he also may have less "fear" or a higher SENSE of control, he may be more comfortable on the ragged edge or he may just not have the skill to know where the edge is and be lucky
Fast guy A may get there faster BUT he may also crash out of a race or injure himself and his balls
Fast Guy B may never win a championship or have "the fast" or it just might take him longer to get there but he might live longer and be able to use said balls.Therefore his cost/benefit analysis is different than Fast Guy A.
Fast guy B MAY be just as skilled or talented but he might not be as fast.
"I'd rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow"
Bikes: Ducati: 748 (Track) Honda: RC31 (Race/street)/ CRF 110 Mini Moto/ Hawk Endurance Racer Kawasaki: ZXR1200R
BOMO Instructor
EX# X
I know "equally" because that was the scenario that I presented to eliminate the speed variable.
If you take two equally fast riders, with one crashing a lot more than the other, obviously there's an imbalance in their skill/feel since the guy that crashes a lot has to assume more risk to maintain the same pace.
Last edited by OreoGaborio; 12-06-10 at 08:26 PM.
-Pete LRRS/CCS #81 - ECK Racing, TonysTrackDays
GMD Computrack Boston | Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Phoenix Graphics | Woodcraft | MTag-Pirelli | OnTrack Media
The Garage: '03 Tuono | '06 SV650
This is a perfect example of how people develop a learning curve. The rider that slowly applies new skills and knowledge progresses consistently and surely until some other internal or external barrier presents itself. The riskier rider's curve would look more like a stock market line graph. Trial and error does not facilitate learning unless the methods/theories/skills are defined and controlled. You might reach the edge sooner taking more risk but unless he truly knows why he went down then he will not truly learn. You may eventually connect the dots but it will ultimately get you to the same place with a bigger repair bill/more scars.
Ken, we need to give this guy a job
Er.... On second thought..... I don't want him comin after my job![]()
Last edited by OreoGaborio; 12-06-10 at 11:48 PM.
-Pete LRRS/CCS #81 - ECK Racing, TonysTrackDays
GMD Computrack Boston | Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Phoenix Graphics | Woodcraft | MTag-Pirelli | OnTrack Media
The Garage: '03 Tuono | '06 SV650
"I'd rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow"
Bikes: Ducati: 748 (Track) Honda: RC31 (Race/street)/ CRF 110 Mini Moto/ Hawk Endurance Racer Kawasaki: ZXR1200R
BOMO Instructor
EX# X
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Originally Posted by scottieducati
![]()
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Gino
HAWK GT Racer Expert #929
2012 CCS LRRS ULSB Champion
2012 CCS LRRS P89 Champion
2008 CCS ULSB National Champion
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Track was cold![]()
-Pete LRRS/CCS #81 - ECK Racing, TonysTrackDays
GMD Computrack Boston | Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Phoenix Graphics | Woodcraft | MTag-Pirelli | OnTrack Media
The Garage: '03 Tuono | '06 SV650
Not yet.... but we can teach it!![]()
-Pete LRRS/CCS #81 - ECK Racing, TonysTrackDays
GMD Computrack Boston | Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Phoenix Graphics | Woodcraft | MTag-Pirelli | OnTrack Media
The Garage: '03 Tuono | '06 SV650
Get in line alvecchio.
Cliff's Cycles KTM
NETRA enduro B-vet
Close your eyes, look deep in your soul, step outside yourself and let your mind go.
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Not asphalt racing, but some similarity applies:
Natural talent -- Jason Lawrence
That's not taught, worked on, practice, or anything. If he put any real effort into his riding, he would have won a lot more races than he has.
I agree with a lot of posts on here that people can be taught to be faster, but I still don't think you can reach the top levels without some genetics. Call it what you want, be it natural talent or just a physical or mental advantage, but the truly elite racers are not the same as everyone else.
-Brian
15 S-Works Venge
Let's not forget the importance of time to master skills. There are some subtle pointers in some of the arguments that learning is time sensitive. It really can be done at any time in a persons life, it just may take longer or need a different approach. Also the drive to learn kinda diminishes. "can't teach an old dog new tricks" complacency also kicks in at some point.
You can teach certain things, but you are only talking if the person does not have the ability to learn. Some people "get it" right away. Those people know what you're talking about, commit the information to long term memory, quickly grasp the concept, and know how to use the information.
So what I'm saying is that, in a way, you do have to be born with a certain amount of natural abilities, but not necessarily riding abilities, more like learning abilities.
Obviously a certain amount of hand/eye coordination or dexterity are required, but I'm mostly focusing on the mental aspects of being fast, not the physical ones.
I have met some people who simply cannot grasp even the basic concept of riding a motorcycle. My sister is a prime example. I have tried to teach her, but she just doesn't understand how to "communicate" with the bike. She knows all the controls, and the concept of riding, but she tries to push the bike around, instead of working with it, leaning, and shifting weight.
Some people are like that. All the knowledge in the world about how to be fast doesn't help without the mental capability to implement it. So it's not so much about having natural or genetic talent, as it is having a natural mental ability to develop the talent.
Last edited by Turbocharged; 12-08-10 at 02:25 PM.
If life gives you lemons... Sue the motherfu**er!
LRRS am #121
"So this is what your race program has become... the back of a pickup truck huh?" -PK