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New Engine Break-In

  1. #1
    Member NHViffer's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In


    Alright guys, picked up the new Daytona 955i on Saturday. Very sweet!

    What is popular opinion about break-in of a new engine. Nearly every engine builder that I have ever heard recommends being a little "hard" on it. Basically take it right through the RPM range, not loading it in high gear, and using plenty of engine braking. One web site that I found stated that the track is an excellent place to break-in an engine.

    Interestingly the shop manager at Nault's Windham did not take the Triumph "factory line" on this. He said drive it like I'm going to drive it! I was happy to hear that from him, gives me some trust in the guy. He did state that I should use the Triumph oil, that it is specially formulated Mobil 1. He said that an oil change will run like $60 using that stuff though. Don't use synthetic for the first 1K miles. And - Oh yah, the first valve adjustment is not 'til 12K. I like that.

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    Tim B.
    Manchester, NH
    2002 Triumph Daytona 955i
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    www.christiansportbike.com
    Jesus Rocks!

  2. #2
    Super Moderator legalspeed's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    Find out what an aspertite is and why it is important to your break in proceedure.

    Anything else will only be an opinion.

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    LRRS\CCS\WERA #486

  3. #3
    NOT laughing with you {~; bemused's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    Originally posted by legalspeed
    Find out what an aspertite is and why it is important to your break in proceedure.
    ya damned teez...

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    WWSD? (what would Sneakers do?)
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    Uppercrust Euro Rider SilverSurfer's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    I realize that the Triumph break in schedule is demanding and LONG, but why would you ignore the manufacturer's recommendation? I would absolutely take the manufacturer's word over some dealer, and especially one that just sold you the line on the "special" Triumph/Mobil 1 oil.

    My very serious recommendation to you is to follow the Triumph break in schedule to a "T" and to have the 600 mile service performed at your dealer. The break in oil will be changed at this 600 mile service and they will use the Triumph cobranded full synth oil in it's place. This is all good stuff, don't get me wrong, but it's expensive and not really all that special.

    When your next oil change arrives (you decide, I usually change it between 3k and 5k miles), get thee to the nearest AutoZone and pick up 4 bottles of Mobil 1 MX4T 10w-40 motorcycle specific oil. Triumph cobrands the MX4T, though in a 15w-50 weight. You'll save roughly $20 over the Triumph oil.

    First and foremost, take care of that engine. It's not fragile, but then again, there's no reason to abuse it, either.

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    01 DAYTONA 955i | 00 DAYTONA 955i | 89 KATANA 600</b></font></td></tr></table>

  5. #5
    Member NHViffer's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    Here's why I would consider doing something other than what the manufacturer recommends:

    http://pistol1.home.mindspring.com/enginebreakin.htm

    http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

    It seems that the point of break-in is to cause the correct wear, overdoing is bad, and under-doing it is bad. I have ridden the same bikes done using both methods and noticed the power improvement of the bike done using the ride-it-as-your-going-to method.

    Just trying to see if anyone else has similar experience in either direction. I hate to have someone tell me to do something without good evidence as to why, and I see too much evidence supporting a less easy break-in.

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    Tim B.
    Manchester, NH
    2002 Triumph Daytona 955i
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    www.christiansportbike.com
    Jesus Rocks!

  6. #6
    Super Moderator legalspeed's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    Originally posted by NHViffer
    improvement of the bike done using the ride-it-as-your-going-to method.

    Post or quote your dyno numbers.

    Did you buy two identical bikes at the exact same time and use different break-ins?

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    LRRS\CCS\WERA #486

  7. #7
    Member NHViffer's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    No, just rode two of the same model owned by friends that were treated differently during break-in...

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    Tim B.
    Manchester, NH
    2002 Triumph Daytona 955i
    CSBA #256
    www.christiansportbike.com
    Jesus Rocks!

  8. #8
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    this is only my 2 take it for what it's worth, I realize my SV is not a 955, but I have 72k on it and never done anything except oil changes and standard scheduled maintenance

    a break in according to mfg spec should get you a motor that will give you a lot of trouble free miles, break it in my some lame brained method that is supose to gain you 0.65 hp will mean greater odds of having a grenade at 40K. other variables have more influence on the longevity and power output of your motor.

    the key thing to remember when breaking in a motor is HEATING & COOLING CYCLES

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    RandyO
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  9. #9
    Uppercrust Euro Rider SilverSurfer's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    I just think that the people that build the engine know more about it than anyone else. Triumph has a stake in this whole thing, too, because they warranty the engine for 2 full years regardless of mileage. The last thing they want is for you to blow up the engine, and the last thing you want is to give them a reason to reject your warranty claims based on "abuse".

    Obviously, it's your choice Tim, I'm just throwing my opinion into the fray. I trust Triumph a lot more than your dealer. Don't know what else to say beyond that.

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    01 DAYTONA 955i | 00 DAYTONA 955i | 89 KATANA 600</b></font></td></tr></table>

  10. #10
    Super Moderator legalspeed's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    Originally posted by SilverSurfer
    I just think that the people that build the engine know more about it than anyone else
    Break-in : the last step in the manufacturing process.

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    LRRS\CCS\WERA #486

  11. #11
    Lifer Rye's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

    This should end any questions!

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    Ryan
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    New Engine Break-In

    Thanks Ryan...At last someone else who does not just buy into the factory line.

    Like I said earlier, even the shop manager who would be responsible for my service told me that the factory method is not necessary. The guys that build and tune engines are the ones that I believe. If the factory would provide me some good mechanical reasons and physics for why I would consider it against what I know from the research that I've done.

    We all know that laywers are the ones that really run things. I bet that the long slow break-in is actually driven by company/product liability.

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    Tim B.
    Manchester, NH
    2002 Triumph Daytona 955i
    CSBA #256
    www.christiansportbike.com
    Jesus Rocks!

  13. #13
    Dic on
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    FWIW my break-in procedure.

    first 100 miles, under 5k,
    next 200 miles, under 7k
    next 200 miles, under 9k
    change oil AND filter (I do this myself using standard non-synth oil)
    take it easy for the next 500 miles with occasional rips up to redline land.
    Change oil and filter again.
    ride it like you stole it.

    The important thing is to not cruise or lug the motor in the first 1k miles. Go up and down the gearbox as much as possible, and don't let the motor semi-cool. Let it heat right up, then make sure you give it at least 30 minutes to cool down before starting it up again.

    A motor that is thrashed from the offset will probably produce more horsepower, but will not last as long as one that is carefully broken in. If you intend to keep the bike for less than 30k miles I wouldn't worry about break in, just thrash it from the off.

    I usually break my bikes in in one weekend.

    Degsy

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  14. #14
    Super Moderator legalspeed's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    The guys that build and tune engines are the ones that I believe



    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...er#reader-link


    I dare you to spend the fifteen bucks and learn the answer to your question(s).

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    LRRS\CCS\WERA #486

  15. #15
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    New Engine Break-In

    You know I actually have that book, but did not think to consult it. Got it last year as a Christmas gift from my sweetie. Guess I'll dust it off tonight. Thanks.

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    Tim B.
    Manchester, NH
    2002 Triumph Daytona 955i
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    www.christiansportbike.com
    Jesus Rocks!

  16. #16
    Super Moderator legalspeed's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    Look up the word aspertite.

    These back-woods fly-by-night self appointed technicians...
    anybody can post a web page.

    We can relate NHViffer, personally, I had to earn every penny of the 10,399 price tag on my gix 1k. Now it's the absolute best for her.

    Read the book, then we'll talk.

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    New Engine Break-In

    Originally posted by legalspeed
    Look up the word aspertite.

    Read through the book some last night. Can't find that word anywhere, are you messing with me?

    What the author does say about break-in is:

    "Break it in fast, it will stay fast; break it in slow, it will stay slow".

    He also gives a couple of examples of how Team Muzzy and a professional engine builder do break-in.

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    Tim B.
    Manchester, NH
    2002 Triumph Daytona 955i
    CSBA #256
    www.christiansportbike.com
    Jesus Rocks!

  18. #18
    Uppercrust Euro Rider SilverSurfer's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    Originally posted by NHViffer
    Thanks Ryan...At last someone else who does not just buy into the factory line.
    But these are the same guys who told you that you should use the Triumph cobranded oil because it's "specially formulated". Come on!

    He doesn't care how you break it in, but he does care about you coming back for the expensive oil change?

    Why would you trust that, and be so quick to discount the manufacturers recommendation on break in? I'm just completely baffled.

    The guys that build and tune engines have great information, and that's wonderful. They can also tear down the engine and rebuild it if they're wrong. Are you going to rebuild your 955i if they're wrong? What harm is there in following the manufacturers schedule? Do you honestly think you're going to end up with a slow Daytona because of the schedule? That bike is going to be putting out big power and I just outright doubt that you're going to find some holy grail because you followed some unorthodox break in schedule.

    Your logic on this is just astounding.

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    01 DAYTONA 955i | 00 DAYTONA 955i | 89 KATANA 600</b></font></td></tr></table>

  19. #19
    Super Moderator legalspeed's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    I'll look.

    Asperites (spelled it right this time, D'oh) are the "rough" peaks and valleys left on the cylinder walls. the purpose; so the rings break them off.
    Rev it too high and they "Rip" off tearing a valley, thus not seating very well.
    This is why the engine manuf. specs RPM's and time values.
    It's in the book, I forgot to bring it in with me, my bad.

    Not messin with ya at all. Just trying to get you an answer based on reality instead of perception.

    I work in R&D.

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  20. #20
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    !!

    For what it's worth, I toured a BMW factory in SC and was astounded to see that each car was placed on a chassis dyno, fired up cold, and run right to the redline in every gear prior to being taken out to a test track and beat on for a couple of laps.

    A friend of mine toured the Kawasaki factory in Nebraska and witnessed a Concours going through the assembly line. When it was complete (other than dealer prep), it was filled with fluids, placed on a dyno, run to the redline in each gear (cold) and shut down. The oil was then drained (and re-used in the next bike!!!)and the bike was packed for shipping.

    Anyone else tour a factory and see how engines are treated when first started? Just curious.

    I always operate my engines gently until they are fully warmed up. I break-in my engines somewhat between the mototuneUSA method and the factory method. I also follow the maintenance schedule precisely. I think the worst thing you can do to an engine is lug it, especially when cold.

    Im my opinion, factory break-in procedures are mostly crap, at least from Kawasaki. The same procedure is recommended for my Concours and my ZX9R and my wife's old EX250. Ever try to ride an EX250 below 4000 RPM as recommended for the first 600 miles? It will be lugging the whole time. The break in procedure can't be right for that engine.

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  21. #21
    Member NHViffer's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    Originally posted by legalspeed

    Asperites (spelled it right this time, D'oh) are the "rough" peaks and valleys left on the cylinder walls. the purpose; so the rings break them off.
    Rev it too high and they "Rip" off tearing a valley, thus not seating very well.
    This is why the engine manuf. specs RPM's and time values.
    That's what I am looking for. A legitmate reason why the factory suggests what they do. Not just some "just because...warranty" reason.

    Silversurfer: I am not saying that what the factory recommends is wrong, I am just wondering why?

    What I do agree with: 2 year mfg warranty is a good thing - why risk it with early abuse? The guys that make the bike should know best. Even though I like the idea of doing my part to help the bike make its full potential of power, I also agree that having a bike that won't last 30K miles is a bad thing. I'm sure that I'll just end up doing my best to keep to the manufacturer's spec, but I'm sure it will be hard!

    Hmmmm, wonder what JC is planning to do on that new ZX-12??

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    Tim B.
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    2002 Triumph Daytona 955i
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    Jesus Rocks!

  22. #22
    Just Registered TLRMan's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    Tim, shoot me you phone number on PM.
    I'll tell you anything you want to know....


    Degsy has the right idea....

    If you want to go with that "Secrets" guy....
    He's an idiot....
    The 2 compression rings don't scrape oil....The oil rings scrape the oil.....What a friggen moron....
    Ya..run it right up to redline buddy!

    And wanna know something? those cylinders are no longer "Round" when that badboy heats up.... Now, is it the rings that need time to seat, or is it the cylinder that needs to take a certain shape or both?? Hmmmmmm.....



    Too bad I didn't still have my shop, I could sell some "Special Mobil one too!

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  23. #23
    Super Moderator legalspeed's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    Originally posted by TLRMan
    \
    If you want to go with that "Secrets" guy....
    He's an idiot....
    The 2 compression rings don't scrape oil....The oil rings scrape the oil.....What a friggen moron....
    Ya..run it right up to redline buddy!

    I've honestly thought the site is a joke. It's like the guys pic is off a backwoods-mofo website. All the glitz and glamour-text... funny thing is, he may be trying to be serious!!

    Hey Mark, why do they call 'em compression rings?

    And since you are willing to answer anything, why does she make the Ooh-Aah sounds?

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  24. #24
    Just Registered TLRMan's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    Originally posted by legalspeed
    I've honestly thought the site is a joke. It's like the guys pic is off a backwoods-mofo website. All the glitz and glamour-text... funny thing is, he may be trying to be serious!!

    Hey Mark, why do they call 'em compression rings?

    And since you are willing to answer anything, why does she make the Ooh-Aah sounds?
    All kidding aside, How you break the engine in is determined on how it was built. Do you have steel liners instead of Nicasil coated aluminum ones? Are you using chrome moly "L" rings?
    Or typical steel Dykes rings? Whats the angle of the crosshatch pattern on the final honing of the cylinders, and what surface finish does it have? What are the exacting tolerances... plus or minus .0005? .001? How round is the cylinder?
    One thing that most people forget is that these cylinders are machined cold. With the advent of water cooling, tolerances can be kept tighter, but I hate to tell you, that the cylinder doesn't stay round for long, as soon as you start that bad boy up, pistons expand faster than the cylinders do. the exhaust side always gets hotter first. the cylinder takes the shape of a lop- sided hour glass. The piston rings "wear" with the cylinder to set themselves properly. When I machined cylinders, I had a torque plate, that simulated a cylinder head bolted to the cylinders, and we figured out a way to heat up the cylinder with hot, 210 degree water, and then made the cut, and honed (or ground) to tolerance. Think about why I used to do this.....
    Must have made some kind of difference, because I won a couple of trophies....

    We are working on technology now, as to actually bore the cylinders out of round, so when they do heat up, they become round..now ain't that a kick in the butt huh?

    I almost forgot...the reason why she makes those noises, is because I'm using "Long Stroke" technology, and you're not...

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    Last edited by TLRMan; 01-22-03 at 04:06 PM.
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  25. #25
    Super Moderator legalspeed's Avatar
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    New Engine Break-In

    Page 150, the chapter on oils and lubricants is a good place to start.

    He does quote Wiseco Piston engineers as stating "run it to red line without load" (dyno), at the same time he is telling you these specialized race parts are ground to a higher finish not found in retail machines.

    This chapter should explain why not to use car oil in your bike.

    Good luck bro.

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