Does this link work for you, too?

[OreoGaborio]

Yeh. I get why you're doing it. I don't necessarily disagree. I just think the situation sucks on multiple levels.

[SteveM]

No matter what I or anybody else says, you & about ten others here will twist it, pick parts of it out & pull straws. No body is right, everybody is wrong except for you. No one's point of view about ANYTHING matters to ANYONE around here lately unless it tightly aligns. No one it seems is allowed an opinion anymore. Unless every person's beliefs aren't in perfect line with what you feel, it turns into a shit show. And yes - as far as me seeing it all as equal, you're dead on. It's coming from ALL angles and ALL points of view. We should come up with a new user group: Relentless Cunts

For context, the "you" I refer to isn't any one person in particular. There's a handful of 'em here. From many different view points, beliefs & opinions. Don't agree with something? There's much more productive forms of discussion than just turning into a spouting bunch of old ladies. No offense to spouting old ladies.

Everyone here has 3 options:
1. Piss and moan about it.
2. Accept it. (ignore)
2. Leave.

Except you, your options are:
1. Piss and moan about it.
2. Accept it. (ignore)
2. Change it.

[JettaJayGLS]

This place is a way I stay in contact with a lot of my close friends. Would hate to lose that.
At the same time, there should be recognition that some things just not tolerated. G20 was kicked out for wrongfully accusing a member of a felony. The fact that this is a line and things like consistently racists views and posts is not, is kind of a bummer.

That said, I like this place. I like a lot of the people here. If those posts I mentioned above occur, I'm going to call them out. If you feel this is as equally bad as making the racist claim, than that is really, really unfortunate. I am assuming I am a "you" that you are talking about.

I'm not talking about a view on COVID or politics, but when they are just clearly, morally wrong.

And to be perfectly clear, I'm really talking about Rambo. I've recently clashed with others, but their history is much shorter and as I said in another post in that argument, maybe I'm wrong in their case.

[butcher bergs]

FWIW, I do not agree with this. I think Steve's entire point is that the "shit" these knuckleheads are in is very, very different. And I think he's right.

There is a line. I'm glad a few here are willing to call folks out for crossing it.

I get what you're saying with regards to the context of both members and I agree with you.

The reality, though, is the manner in which some folks are interacting is in exactly the same way for each "side", only difference is their difference of opinion on the subject matter.

Name calling, belittling, outward disrespect, etc. Both "sides" are offenders yet both "sides" are pointing at each other and casting blame.

[SteveM]

No one's is denying there's been a lot of nonsense in all directions.

"exactly the same way on each side" puts Rambo in the same room with everyone else.

If you believe Rambo and I are the same, you're entitled to that opinion.

[Stoneman]

I get what you're saying with regards to the context of both members and I agree with you.

The reality, though, is the manner in which some folks are interacting is in exactly the same way for each "side", only difference is their difference of opinion on the subject matter.

Name calling, belittling, outward disrespect, etc. Both "sides" are offenders yet both "sides" are pointing at each other and casting blame.

[loudbeard]

While I strongly disagree and have argued in many COVID and political discussions, I am not sure why there is a place on NESR for the various racist remarks that a few members have made. Even if it's more of the dog whistle variety, that should be dealt with directly.

[OreoGaborio]

There's a "report post" icon on every post. If you see something racist, please report it and provide a little context explaining why if it's not plainly obvious.

[jasnmar]

This place is a way I stay in contact with a lot of my close friends. Would hate to lose that.
At the same time, there should be recognition that some things just not tolerated. G20 was kicked out for wrongfully accusing a member of a felony. The fact that this is a line and things like consistently racists views and posts is not, is kind of a bummer.

G21forme is still a member.
He was given a timeout.
He has chosen not to participate in discussions recently.

[JettaJayGLS]

G21forme is still a member.
He was given a timeout.
He has chosen not to participate in discussions recently.

Fair enough. My point is still the same. Action have been taken for offenses that were deemed to have crossed the line.
I know I am in a place that I don't have the ability to formally decide the line.
But this place also allows me to state my viewpoint when I think a line has been crossed.

And the "bad people on both sides" is a valid point when it comes to most topics. Other topics its not.

[jasnmar]

Fair enough. My point is still the same. Action have been taken for offenses that were deemed to have crossed the line.
I know I am in a place that I don't have the ability to formally decide the line.
But this place also allows me to state my viewpoint when I think a line has been crossed.

And the "bad people on both sides" is a valid point when it comes to most topics. Other topics its not.

So, if I were to say:
Jay lied about G21forme's member ship status. He did so pejoratively in stating that he had been banned from the forums.
He also got his username factually incorrect, which is simple enough to verify.
This is no different that Greg lying about some dumb gun thing which I never kept up with.
This crosses the line!

I'd have a valid argument.
It's not one I'd care to make, but everyone's line is different.

[JettaJayGLS]

So, if I were to say:
Jay lied about G21forme's member ship status. He did so pejoratively in stating that he had been banned from the forums.
He also got his username factually incorrect, which is simple enough to verify.
This is no different that Greg lying about some dumb gun thing which I never kept up with.
This crosses the line!

I'd have a valid argument.
It's not one I'd care to make, but everyone's line is different.

Be my guest. Readers can form their opinion about my character based on my posts and they will do the same about Greg.
In my view...those two things are not the same. I don't have to tell you they're not the same.

I'm also sitting here admitting I was wrong in my post. Acknowledging I made a mistake. And not digging a deeper hole

[OreoGaborio]

So, if I were to say:
Jay lied about G21forme's member ship status. He did so pejoratively in stating that he had been banned from the forums.
He also got his username factually incorrect, which is simple enough to verify.
This is no different that Greg lying about some dumb gun thing which I never kept up with.
This crosses the line!

I'd have a valid argument.
It's not one I'd care to make, but everyone's line is different.

A "valid" argument? More like a straw man argument.

Greg made false accusations of multiple felonies, which could easily be argued was libel... but you're smart enough to know that, just like you're smart enough to know the difference between that & Jay's post on the subject.

[Jim]

There's line crossing from so fuckin' many here. It's absolutely pathetic. From ALL sides & angles, it's fuckin' childish.

[jasnmar]

Be my guest. Readers can form their opinion about my character based on my posts and they will do the same about Greg.
In my view...those two things are not the same. I don't have to tell you they're not the same.

I'm also sitting here admitting I was wrong in my post. Acknowledging I made a mistake. And not digging a deeper hole

A "valid" argument? No, you'd have a straw man argument.

Greg made false accusations of multiple felonies, which could easily be argued was libel... but you're smart enough to know that, just like you're smart enough to know the difference between that & Jay's post on the topic, just like you're smart enough to know that discussion is neither here nor there.

Interesting. It seems that the "line" on NESR is currently related to what I think many people would regard as "criminal" (although criminal libel is a pretty high bar, civil libel is easier) behavior.
Is anyone accusing anyone they want banned of criminal behavior? Or behavior that they are considering filing lawsuits over?

The entire idea of banning things we don't like or want to see is only doing more to create echo chambers, in my opinion.
With that I'll step out of the argument and leave it up to the mods to figure out what the correct ban line is.

I haven't watched this, but the headline matches my bias.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ve_become.html

[OreoGaborio]

Given that he, as you well know, WASN'T banned, refutes that presumption.

[SteveM]

Interesting. It seems that the "line" on NESR is currently related to what I think many people would regard as "criminal" (although criminal libel is a pretty high bar, civil libel is easier) behavior.
Is anyone accusing anyone they want banned of criminal behavior? Or behavior that they are considering filing lawsuits over?

The entire idea of banning things we don't like or want to see is only doing more to create echo chambers, in my opinion.
With that I'll step out of the argument and leave it up to the mods to figure out what the correct ban line is.

I haven't watched this, but the headline matches my bias.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ve_become.html

I agree with this, no echo chambers. But even in a room of idiots, like us, there has to be a limit of idiocy and set of community standards.

[Stoneman]

Can someone please point me to what you would consider "criminal" behavior on NESR?

[OreoGaborio]

Aside from the accusations made against me, I can't think of a single one.

EDIT: Oh ya. ScamScam (rayray)

[obsolete]

Can someone please point me to what you would consider "criminal" behavior on NESR?

Pete moving to western MA?

[OreoGaborio]

It's WEST EASTERN!

[e30addict]

Can someone please point me to what you would consider "criminal" behavior on NESR?

Ray Ray?

[obsolete]

It's WEST EASTERN!

It's outside 495, may as well be New York. Fucking Yankees fan.

[JettaJayGLS]

I think the criminal behavior point is fair and more or less what Stoneman is holding people too.

It leads itself to a much larger discussion (and I think we're there) about how/what is tolerated. No one is asking for bans on politics or COVID.

-Steve has made the case that he doesn't want to be involved with a place that allows hate speech, racism, and spread of misinformation (paraphrasing, these are my words and my interpretation not necessarily Steve's). I understand this.

-I have made the case that I'm fine being involved, but am going to call them out. I have no problem with this and maybe almost prefer it? Other wise they just trudge back to their own echo chambers, which is equally as dangerous?

-Stoneman has so far made the case that he is not going to ban people for it these types of activities (again, paraphrasing, these are my words and my interpretation not necessarily Stoneman's). The Supreme Court holds the same view. No skin off my back, but it is upsetting to me if as much credit is given to someone like Rambo's views vs mine. I.e. it is not the same on both sides. Legally it might be, but morally not. You always punch the Nazi.

Others have their own lines that you can agree or disagree with. Some people think you shouldn't punch the Nazi.
The question is....do they not punch the nazi because they agree with him, or they agree with his right. I can have a discussion with the latter, the former can get fucked.

[SRTie4k]

Can someone please point me to what you would consider "criminal" behavior on NESR?

The utter lack of motorcycle related content on this forum.

This board should really be renamed "nehomeowners.com", with all the posts about chainsaws, lawnmowers, water mitigation, plumbing/electrical and family SUVs.