Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

[danny86]

http://www.massrealestatelawblog.com...e-on-property/

For those more legally educated than me. Does this mean if I do not shovel my sidewalk and say Jehovah Witness came upto my house, walked on the non-shoveled sidewalk , slipped and fall............ I am legally liable ?


Also the article said it even includes conditions caused by "street plows"

So if I DO shovel my driveway, go back inside, the plow comes by and puts more snow on my driveway, someone then walks up my driveway slips and falls on the snow put there by the plow , I am liable ?

If this is true, WOW

[Garandman]

"In Boston, snow removal is required for the full width of the sidewalk or a minimum of 42 inches. " This is pretty much impossible in front of my house since there is no front yard. A one foot snowfall turns into a three foot snowbank since the snow is not removed from the roadway, just plowed to either side.

I've assumed that anyone who slipped on the sidewalk in front of our house would try to sue for years. I shovel / snow throw often and put down a lot of ice melter.

The MA Supreme Judicial Court makes most MA legislators look like Newt Gingrich.

[Eric Baker]

Just saw this on the news a little bit ago. Pretty ridiculous. They said that the city(Boston in this case) plows the road up onto the sidewalks, then it's the business owner who has a storefront on that sidewalk's responsibility to then remove that snow or face fines. How is that fair in any way, shape, or form. The business owner is held responsible for something that is at 100% fault of the city plowers.

[Pittenger5]

I always thought of it like what if I have to shovel all day at work (which I did during snowstorms) the last thing I want to do is come home and shovel too. But since people MIGHT walk down my street to get their well needed exercise (why cant they just shovel my driveway instead) I need to shovel more.

Guess Ill just move to Florida.

[Jim]

Guess Ill just move to Florida.

i hope it snows just over your drivway and sidewalk

[slammp]

I believe that the general rule of thumb is "so long as you can demonstrate that you put forth a good effort to keep your property free and clear of snow and ice" then you are alright in court. A long as you can prove that you did shovel and salt. If you take no action and someone falls then yes I believe you are liable.

[neuthunder]

yeah but what happens if you're away during a snow storm?.... god wtf happened to common sense and self responsibility

[DuncanMoto]

...wtf happened to common sense and self responsibility

They got sued and sentenced to 4 years to life...

[neuthunder]

They got sued and sentenced to 4 years to life...

[old timer]

Just another example of how common sense and these assholes we elected are moving further apart . We dont need to be told and then threatened to do what we were doing in the first place .

This all started because of city and state property that wasn't being taken care of and shoveled . The jerk-offs in Boston made it the responsibility of the neighbors to shovel this property along with their own .

You cant sue the city or state for any kind of damages...so now you can sue the guy that lives next door and minds his own business...

So , that said , get off the computer and get yer ass outside and shovel...

[SVRACER01]

Wirelessly posted (HTC EVO "DROID" : Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.2; en-us; Sprint APA9292KT Build/FRF91) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

It's funny that clearing the sidewalk is the businesses responsibility but the sidewalk is city property. I believe the first 10 ft from the edge of the pavement is city/state property.

[Falko]

Set up a couple of barriers at your property edge, "Sidewalk closed due to treacherous conditions, enter at your own risk."

Then get ready to be sued anyway.


Shoveling the snow is typically easier than shoveling a hole to get rid of the bodies this time of year.

[Garandman]

I have to say we have some neighbors who never shoveled before who were out there today.

[Slyder]

I don't know of any towns up this way that do that. The towns all have those cool little tractors to plow and sand the sidewalks.

So what happens if you're outside shoveling (doing the CITIES WORK) and fall on their sidewalk? Do you get to sue the city?

Just think of the money the city could save if they also had the residents shoveling the street in front of their place as well. Hundreds of thousands to millions depending on the size of said city.

[Garandman]

I don't know of any towns up this way that do that. The towns all have those cool little tractors to plow and sand the sidewalks.

So what happens if you're outside shoveling (doing the CITIES WORK) and fall on their sidewalk? Do you get to sue the city?

Just think of the money the city could save if they also had the residents shoveling the street in front of their place as well. Hundreds of thousands to millions depending on the size of said city.

The population of Vermont is 622,000.

The population of Boston, excluding commuters, tourists, and several hundred thousand college students, is 645,000. See the scale of the problem?

It's 49 square miles of land area and very likely thousands of miles of sidewalks. And a lot of rental housing where the tenants do not have the responsibility of shoveling.

I have a 24" snow thrower because some of the distances between trees, stairs, etc are so narrow that a Bombardier groomer or similar vehicle would be far too large.

In our neighborhood, it's pretty simple. There are three of us with snow throwers and we do all the sidewalks for elderly and inform neighbors.

Do I like the new legislation? No. Does it seem to have helped get the sidewalks clear? Seems so.

[R7]

Still trying to think of a reason to live in the city? Hmmm, nope, I can't think of one.

Not a problem here..just put up a posted sign and keep everyone away!

Posted, no tresspassing!
Violators will be shot!
If you move, you'll be shot again!

[Pittenger5]

THis is a law in Worcester, Boston and Lynn. They said on the news that for Boston the snow stopped at noon and you have 6 hours to clean the sidewalk. So you have from noon to 6pm on a Monday to clean your sidewalk. I guess no one has to work anymore, or is on vacation this week.

[Garandman]

Still trying to think of a reason to live in the city? Hmmm, nope, I can't think of one.//

Yeah, if you aren't looking for single women, hospital care, concerts, museums, professional sports teams, college graduate or professional education, restaurants, easy access to public transportation and the airport, construction, financial services advertising educational or medical jobs, or Boston Harbor and islands, it's not for you.

I wouldn't be fond of commuting into Boston, but commuting out of Boston in any direction is a piece of cake. It takes me less time to get to Waterville Valley from Boston than when I lived in Portsmouth, NH.

[butcher bergs]

As a person who has recently moved away from dense population and into the sticks, I will just say this--> Hellooooo peace and quiet!!

[danny86]

What do you guys think about the people in the city clearing off their parking spot from snow, and then having someone else park in that very spot....

On one hand, it is a public road, public parking, etc...

ont he other hand, you just spent 30 minutes shoveling your ass off to make the spot clear.

[MysteriousR1]

Yeah, if you aren't looking for hospital care, concerts, museums, professional sports teams, college graduate or professional education, restaurants, easy access to public transportation and the airport, construction, financial services advertising educational or medical jobs, or Boston Harbor and islands, it's not for you.

Yup, its really not for me

[Garandman]

What do you guys think about the people in the city clearing off their parking spot from snow, and then having someone else park in that very spot....

On one hand, it is a public road, public parking, etc...

ont he other hand, you just spent 30 minutes shoveling your ass off to make the spot clear.

It's common in Southie. The official city rule is 48 hours after the storm ends. In our neighborhood it usually lasts a little longer, but not much. As soon as the snow is gone from the street, the cones disappear. People who abuse it find themselves buying a lot of cones....

Here's the problem in the neighborhoods. Major arteries are snow emergency routes so residents can't park there during the storm. Parking is allowed on both sides of many other neighborhood streets as a result.

Years ago, they used to run a front end loader up the street and put it in a dump truck. But EPA rules don't allow them to dump snow in the harbor anymore. "Save the Harbor Save the Bay" filed a series of lawsuits against the city starting in the 1990's to prevent it. So there is literally no place to put the snow.

So now there is no snow removal. The plows plow all the snow from the road against your car. Most of the contractors shift the plow on each pass so some is on one side, some on the other. But the contractor who did our street put it all on "our" side of the street.

With an 11.5hp Ariens, yesterday it took me an hour to remove this snow plus another hour shoveling for two cars and an elderly neighbor. It has salt in it so it turns to mush. I have to blow it 3-4 times as I can't go over the car. Keep in mind that we also have to clear the sidewalk. So all the snow from the sidewalk and street winds up in a snowbank between the car and sidewalk.

One of the city councilmen has been trying to work with MassPort. Logan Airport has a number of ice melters that melt the ice and filter it so the water can be dumped. But the machines are large, expensive, and use a lot of fuel.

So 48 hours for a regular storm and a few days longer for a big storm seems reasonable to me. It must be hellish in Back Bay, which I understand has something like 11,000 resident cars and 7,000 spaces.

This legislation may be the straw that broke the camel's back. A lot more people are complaining about the cities snow clearing policies. Here's what passes for snow removal.

[MissTwisties]

Still trying to think of a reason to live in the city? Hmmm, nope, I can't think of one.

Not a problem here..just put up a posted sign and keep everyone away!

Posted, no tresspassing!
Violators will be shot!
If you move, you'll be shot again!

We have that sign right on our front entrance door....lol

[CBR929RE]

The stores I deliver to are supposed to clear their sidewalks to ensure a safe delivery but it also makes sense for their customers safety also. a few of mine last night weren't done yet. I shoveled a couple but some of the lots it was too compacted to get it down to pavement so really its just something you have to deal with. I give them a few days then I start asking for them to clear it. but a lot of them the property owner/management company is responsible to clear the sidewalks. I understand in the city its a little different because of the situation but stores really should make some kind of effort for their customers.

What do you guys think about the people in the city clearing off their parking spot from snow, and then having someone else park in that very spot....

On one hand, it is a public road, public parking, etc...

ont he other hand, you just spent 30 minutes shoveling your ass off to make the spot clear.

you clear one spot and someone takes it later so take a spot someone else cleared. it'll all even out in the end unless you have some real asshole that just waits till there's an open spot every time.

[Kitt]

As a person who has recently moved away from dense population and into the sticks, I will just say this--> Hellooooo peace and quiet!!

then your track isn't done yet

In response to all the shoveling talk - It has been town ordinance or law everywhere I've been with sidewalks. I hate crowded parking in winter AND shoveling in fear of being sued - I fixed the problem... I moved.