Lemon law help - Bought a junker !

[danny86]

I went to go look at a Ford Ranger last night.

1994 122k for $2,000.

I don't know much about cars/truck or the buying process in general. Perhaps I should of done more due diligence before purchasing the vehicle however....

After purchasing the vehicle I brought it to my friend/mechanic and said,
1. The struts (suspension) are gone.
2. Theres an exhaust leak behind the passenger side, front to manifold
3. The oil pan is leaking a good amount of oil.

Numbers #2 and #3 were both smoothered in JB Weld. He said it looked like someone tried to "quick patch it" for a sale.

I did some research and found this
http://www.mass.gov/ocabr/consumer/a...n-aid-law.html

The Massachusetts Lemon Aid Law allows you to void or cancel a motor vehicle contract or sale if your vehicle fails to pass inspection within seven days from the date of sale AND if the estimated costs of repairs of emissions or safety related defects exceed 10% of the purchase price. ( M.G.L. c. 90 §7N) This law applies to both dealer and private party sales of cars and motorcycles purchased for personal or family use. Dealers must display your Lemon Aid rights by putting a sticker on the left front window of each used car at the time of delivery.

So it appears I have to get the failed inspection first and then go back to the seller.

My 2 questions are this,

1. Has anyone ever had experience with this before?
2. What happens if I follow the steps outlined below and the seller refuses to accept the truck back ?

How To Receive Your Refund

In order to obtain a refund, the vehicle must be inspected and rejected by a licensed Massachusetts Inspection Station within 7 days of purchasing it. The rejection cannot be caused by your negligence, abuse or an accident occurring after the date of sale. In addition, you must complete all of the following steps within 14 days from the date of sale:

Get a written statement, signed by an authorized agent of the inspection station, stating the reasons why the vehicle failed to pass the safety or combined safety and emissions inspection test.
Obtain a written estimate of the costs of the necessary emissions or safety repairs showing that those costs exceed 10% of the purchase price.
Notify the seller of your intention to void the contract under this statute ( M.G.L. c. 90, §7N). Do this by certified mail, return receipt requested, and by regular mail. Enclose a copy of the documents listed in Steps 1 and 2. Be sure to save copies for your files.
Deliver the car to the seller, even if delivery requires towing services. It is advisable to take a witness with you and copies of the documents listed in Steps 1, 2, and 3. If the seller refuses to accept the car, prepare a statement indicating that you and a witness delivered the car to the seller on that date, but that the seller refused to accept the car. Be sure the statement is signed by both you and your witness in the presence of a notary public.
If you comply with these provisions, you are entitled to a full refund of the purchase price. You and the seller may agree in writing to have the seller do the necessary emissions or safety-related repairs at the seller's expense. You may, however, refuse the seller's offer and accept a full refund.

[SprintPoser]

This is going to be harder than you might think, even though you might be in the right.

The only one of those issues that may be grounds for failure to pass inspection is the faulty exhaust, and I sincerely doubt that repairing the system could cost more that 10% of the purchase price when the seller is fixing it.

You might consider biting the bullet on this one, chalking it up to experience. If you are so motivated as to actually pursue the Lemon Law provisions, make certain you follow every step to the letter, or it can be thrown out and you still have a vehicle to fix. Or, you can just save a lot of headache and get the exhaust fixed, get it passed on the inspection, then save up a few bucks and fix the suspenders.

1. No, I've never tried it before. I see lots of ways the seller can make this a long drawn out process that costs YOU more than the repairs.
2. What happens if the seller refuses? Probably the same thing if he agreed to take it back. He's already spent the money and you'll get yours back in small payments, if at all.

[timmyho414]

94 Ranger has shocks not struts. struts are more money, shocks you could get for 30 bucks each maybe less. If they are "gone" they would fail an NH state inspection, I would think they should fail Mass too. Your magic number is 200 if I read your post right. The shocks installed are going to eat that.

The pan should be easy to fix, even if it needs a new pan due to rusting through.

Exhaust, hard saying not knowing. That is the only one that could be a pain.

If the truck is clean other wise I'd just get it fixed. I know NOTHING about MASS lemon laws though.

[timmyho414]

94 Ranger has shocks not struts. struts are more money, shocks you could get for 30 bucks each maybe less. If they are "gone" they would fail an NH state inspection, I would think they should fail Mass too. Your magic number is 200 if I read your post right. The shocks installed are going to eat that.

The pan should be easy to fix, even if it needs a new pan due to rusting through. edit or it could suck if its 4x4 which it probable is.

Exhaust, hard saying not knowing. That is the only one that could be a pain.

If the truck is clean other wise I'd just get it fixed. I know NOTHING about MASS lemon laws though.

[danny86]

Just curious how would it cost me more?

Small Claims court filing fee is $50, the defendant - if I prevail - will be responsible for the fee.

Even if the payments are small increments I'm still getting my principle back ( less inflation ),

Court orders are similar to the IRS are they not? Eventually they'll dock your pay if you ignore it..... ?

TBH The truck is in good shape, I just didnt expect to get hit with such a large bill for repairs.

Also - To clarify - the oil pan leak..... WON'T cause it to fail inspection ? Everytime I stop I see a small puddle of oil on the ground right below the motor.

[SprintPoser]

Neither the leaky oil pan nor the poor suspension will fail inspection. This isn't a British MOT inspection after all.

Which model Ranger is that? My son has a 2002 Madza B3000 4x4 and had bought a pair of KYB shocks for it, KG54309. Because of a problem with not getting a confirmation he clicked again and ended up with an extra pair. He's selling them off for less than he paid. Changing shocks on a vehicle like that is so easy a caveman could do it. In fact, they're better at it than most people.

Just fix the damn thing. By the time you get done playing the legal games, you'll still be out money, and unless you time is worth nothing, lots of wasted energy that would have a fixed and happy truck.

[Tricky Mike]

Not trying to bust your balls or anything, but were you deliberately misled by the seller or something? It's a truck that's almost 20 years old with 122K on the clock. KBB lists a fair condition truck at closer to $3K. Maybe I'm just a little bit old school here, but unless the guy pulled some slimy shit I wouldn't really expect that the he owes me anything.

[imkindafkedup]

Are the tie rods and ball joints in good condition? Those are all part of the safety inspection. I would contact the seller first and see if he'll be a stand up guy about it. If not then peruse the legal way if you can afford to be out the 2000 for months - year.

[danny86]

I asked the guy if there was anything wrong with it. I understand I should of taken the answer with a grain of salt but when he says " Truck runs mint, no problems whatsoever" then all of a sudden I'm looking at a huge repair bill.... it kind of throws me off. (Thats due to mechanical problems that were "quickly" patched with JB Weld)

Again, my comments are more of a question..... less conviction. I'm new to this whole process so I'm not sure what I did right or what I should do from here on out .

Hence the questions

[SprintPoser]

The legal pursuit can cost you more because of the bullshit running around, the cost of documentation, filing, mailing, and the risk that it could all be for naught. I could picture a clerk magistrate or judge looking over his/her glasses with a "seriously?" look on their face.

I agree with TM, it's a cheap buy on a (relatively) low-mileage truck, so just take care of the little things and drive it.

[timmyho414]

I can only give a reasonable quote is the shocks. 30x4= 120 plus .5 per shock at lets say 80 per hour(pretty cheap) 280 for the shocks unless your friend help you. If you work on your bike you could do the shocks yourself unless there is rust in which case you really need a torch.

I'm not going to guess at the exhaust.

oil pan, if they put JBweld on it I'm guessing the pan is rusted out, not uncommon.
50-100 for the pan, plus oil and filter, I cannot imagine it would be more the 4 hours, I can't access my estimator right now, say 420.
Oil leaks can fail, it they drip onto the exhaust it could catch fire and not be safe. If it drip a small amount on the ground and the guy inspecting it doesn't notice you're fine. I'd sounds like someone will notice yours. It will get blown all under vehicle and leave a big red flag, which is probably how your friend found it. The JBweld will not help either.

I'd guess you're in it for about 1k. price are http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/1994/...lar-Cab/Values looks like you didn't do that bad depending what options it has.

I only looked up a couple things so don't quote me on prices but it is at last ballpark.

[SprintPoser]

Go to the various Ranger-based forums and start poking around.

RangerStation.com
RangerPowerSports.com

[virtualbong]

I hope you checked for major rust in the frame...that's what you need to worry abut because hese trucks are notorious for rusted out frames.

[R7]

TBH The truck is in good shape, I just didnt expect to get hit with such a large bill for repairs.

It's sad there are laws in this country to protect from stupid! You bought an 18 year old truck, knowing nothing about what to look for, and didn't expect large repairs? Did you even test drive it? A simple test drive would given a clue to the exhaust leak and suspension, and a simple look around/under would have given a clue on the oil leak.
You should just fix the truck and walk around with your head down calling yourself an idiot

[timmyho414]

It looks to me who ever sold it to you sold it at a reasonable price for something needing work. Sucks you did not know that at the time. I'd try the get the inspection. If the only find those problem, or only 1 or 2 of them. Fix those and plan on the others. Will be done for right around, likely under the clean retail and have a nice truck.

Fight it, I'm no lawyer, and it seems that are the only one who make out in court. Win or lose I'm sure you will be pissed by the time its down. And you still won't have a truck.

[timmyho414]

I hope you checked for major rust in the frame...that's what you need to worry abut because hese trucks are notorious for rusted out frames.

ya, good call.

check the rear shackles. Where the rear of leaf springs attach to the frame. They are sold as kits now. If they have not been done it will likely need it. Your buddy hopefully look at that already.

[SprintPoser]

It looks to me who ever sold it to you sold it at a reasonable price for something needing work. Sucks you did not know that at the time. I'd try the get the inspection. If the only find those problem, or only 1 or 2 of them. Fix those and plan on the others. Will be done for right around, likely under the clean retail and have a nice truck.

Fight it, I'm no lawyer, and it seems that are the only one who make out in court. Win or lose I'm sure you will be pissed by the time its down. And you still won't have a truck.

Well stated. Let's not be forgetting that even after putting all the time and money into going to court, the question WILL come up of "Did you afford the seller the opportunity to fix the defects that prevented it from passing inspection?"

That might be the simplest first step. Get some photos and a write up, call the seller and see what the reaction is to paying for at least the exhaust system fix.

ya, good call.

check the rear shackles. Where the rear of leaf springs attach to the frame. They are sold as kits now. If they have not been done it will likely need it. Your buddy hopefully look at that already.

Yup...my son's 2002 Mazda B3000 4x4 (manual) had that shackles problem, AND one broken leaf. That was one problem he just took it to Ballard Spring on RT20 in Worcester and got all new shackles and springs for about $220, installed. With the new BF Goodrich All Terrain T/A KO tires and a 2" lift, he's got himself a rather beasty little truck now.

[e30addict]

It's an old vehicle that you paid $2,000 for. It's going to have issues. No one sells cars/trucks for that money that need nothing.

Unless you have a ton of free time on your hands and like frustration, suck it up as a lesson learned and learn how to fix the thing. It's an old Ford, this won't be your first repair

As others said, easiest way out is to buy a manual and learn how to do shocks. Short, easy money. You can pick up a junk yard oil pan if you're cheap or spend a little more for a new one. Not that hard to change them out. Bring it to Midas or something for the exhaust.

It seems like a lot now because it was unexpected, but once you actually look at what's needed it's really no big deal in the grand scheme of things. You easily could have ended up with a junk motor or transmission instead of quick fixes.

[SteveM]

Today's $2,000 truck is the equivalent of the $300 cars I lived with when I was your age. If it doesn't require some wrenching EVERY weekend, you should be happy.

Heck, my son's hand me down Grand Cherokee started to leak from the oil pan and when he saw me jack it up, JB weld the soft spots and spray it with that new rubberized paint coating he was amazed (non mechanical college boy).

Necessity is the mother of learning how to do stuff, get out your wrenches and have fun.

[Kitt]

you ought a used car and didn't inspect it well. Eat the few hundred bucks in repairs... You won't prevail in a lemon law against a private seller. Did the bill of sale state as-is condition? Next time, if you don't feel comfortable inspecting it yourself, ask the seller if you can bring it to your local mechanic for a look, or bring a "car guy" with you.

[03Worc9R]

Sorry, but you should really take everyones advice here in this situation. You bought a 20y/o car for $2000. that you didn't inspect! Just take it as a learning curve.

Even if you were to peruse this, with a used car budget like that, you will get what you pay for.

[Damnut]

So you know nothing about cars and you didn't bring someone with you that does??? Sorry but for 2 grand, you pretty much brought this on yourself. There is no way you can buy something that cheap and have NOTHING wrong with it. You also should have found ALL of the problems BEFORE you bought it. A simple inspection would have found all of the problems and you could have purchased the truck for less because of the issues.

Don't blame someone else for YOUR lack of due diligence.

BTW...... all the problems with the truck are simple repairs. Any shadetree mechanic should be able to fix all of the issues, even the exhaust leak for cheap.

[eboos]

Here is something from the Mass.gov site:

Private Party Sales:
In addition to the Lemon Aid Law requirements, a private party who sells a consumer a used vehicle must tell the buyer about any known use or safety defects. If the buyer discovers a defect which impairs the safety or substantially impairs the use of the vehicle, and can prove the seller knew about it, then the buyer can return the vehicle within 30 days of purchase. Private parties are bound by this law, regardless of the age or selling price of the vehicle.

You have the burden of proof to show the seller had prior knowledge. Good luck.

[TheIglu]

You obviously had Hellen Keller look at it for you.

Bring it to your mechanic before you purchase next time. It's called due diligence and you didn't do it. If I was the seller I'd get a good laugh when you called.

[idratherberidin]

Delete this thread and sell it for $2100. Problem solved.