Care to school me on which 300 enduro to buy?

[nick5446]

I've got an older KTM 300 EXC that's great, but I'm ready for something newer. I am not too tuned into the latest and greatest; can any of you kind souls recommend some models to consider, years to avoid, etc?

Here's my wish list:
- 250-300cc 2 stroke
- Plated (MA)
- Woods bike
- Based on the above I'm probably only looking at Euro stuff
- Cheap/good deal/used

I probably want fuel/oil injection and e-start, but I'm skeptical of all of those things, so would like to avoid anything that's prone to failure. I like the idea of e-start with kick backup. I won't be putting insane amount of hours on whatever I buy (probably 30-50 hours a year at most), and I don't plan to race it.

I've mostly been looking at KTM and Husky, but should I be considering Beta, GasGas, TM, etc.? I'm even less familiar with those bikes. I'm more than likely going to get something used, but not totally opposed to a cheap leftover or something. I mostly just don't want to blow my whole load on a new bike and then have to come up with another $2k in "must have" add-ons.

[xrocket21]

KTM, Husky, and Gas Gas are basically the same bike. Its like comparing an Eagle Talon to a Mitsubishi Eclipse.

[MattR302]

KTM, Husky, and Gas Gas are basically the same bike. It’s like comparing an Eagle Talon to a Mitsubishi Eclipse.

Why you hating on the Plymouth Laser?

[nick5446]

KTM, Husky, and Gas Gas are basically the same bike. Its like comparing an Eagle Talon to a Mitsubishi Eclipse.

That's right, I forgot the GasGas was the same platform too. They have different suspension though maybe?

[OreoGaborio]

Why you hating on the Plymouth Laser?

My brother had one of those. Sick ride

That's right, I forgot the GasGas was the same platform too. They have different suspension though maybe?

The KTM has a direct mount schock, the others have linkage.
Aside from that, so far as I've surmised, they're nearly identical minus tiny little details that probably don't matter a whole lot to us mortals.


Now what you REALLY need.... is a 2001 KTM 400 EXC. I just so happen to know a guy who might be selling one.

[xrocket21]

Why you hating on the Plymouth Laser?

I would never hate on the Laser!!

[tls25rs]

The foundations of the KTM/Husqvarna/GasGas are all basically the same, motor, electrical, wheels (now that I think of it the wheel brands might be different on the 3 brands as well) the differences are in things like suspension (linkage vs. PDS) and brakes (Brembo vs. Magura vs. Braketech). None of the newer models come with kick and electric start that I know of. You can buy the kickstart and add it to them though. Some are both fuel and oil injected, some need to run mixed fuel.

Some Beta are oil injected but I am pretty sure still use carbs.

TM from what I have seen make some nice stuff but being a slightly more esoteric brand might be a little more difficult to find parts/accessories for locally. As with anything if you are buying online shouldn't be an issue.

Another option is Sherco which I would put somewhere between Beta and TM mostly because of local support. I know of a few Beta dealers, one Sherco dealer, a slew of KTM/Husqvarna/GasGas dealers and can't think of a TM dealer off the top of my head.

Couple of groups on Facebook to watch for stuff to come up for sale. Netra has a group and there are a lot of brand specific groups that people advertise their bikes for sale on.

[R7]

One bike I had that I really miss because of how simple it was, was the YZ 250X. It had no bells and whistles, started easily with the kick starter, and would lug down low when needed, and rev to the moon when needed. The only downfall is plate, but if you’re looking used, then there are likely many available that have been plated.

[nick5446]

The foundations of the KTM/Husqvarna/GasGas are all basically the same, motor, electrical, wheels (now that I think of it the wheel brands might be different on the 3 brands as well) the differences are in things like suspension (linkage vs. PDS) and brakes (Brembo vs. Magura vs. Braketech). None of the newer models come with kick and electric start that I know of. You can buy the kickstart and add it to them though. Some are both fuel and oil injected, some need to run mixed fuel.

Some Beta are oil injected but I am pretty sure still use carbs.

TM from what I have seen make some nice stuff but being a slightly more esoteric brand might be a little more difficult to find parts/accessories for locally. As with anything if you are buying online shouldn't be an issue.

Another option is Sherco which I would put somewhere between Beta and TM mostly because of local support. I know of a few Beta dealers, one Sherco dealer, a slew of KTM/Husqvarna/GasGas dealers and can't think of a TM dealer off the top of my head.

Couple of groups on Facebook to watch for stuff to come up for sale. Netra has a group and there are a lot of brand specific groups that people advertise their bikes for sale on.

This is helpful - thanks. Yeah I'm on that NETRA page and will do a deep dive as I've seen some deals there.

To your point, I suspect dealer support isn't a huge issue as consumables are pretty generic, and anything major I'd likely get online anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

One bike I had that I really miss because of how simple it was, was the YZ 250X. It had no bells and whistles, started easily with the kick starter, and would lug down low when needed, and rev to the moon when needed. The only downfall is plate, but if you’re looking used, then there are likely many available that have been plated.

Yeah, same. I had an '02 YZ250 that I put about a million hours on without issue. Finding one with a plate might be tricky, but definitely not impossible.

[boosten lebaron]

My neighbor just bought a KTM 300 and loves it. Wagner is dumping them for $8600 I think he said. Seems like a solid deal

[nick5446]

My neighbor just bought a KTM 300 and loves it. Wagner is dumping them for $8600 I think he said. Seems like a solid deal

Yeah there's nothing not to like about them. I'll take a look at Wagner!

[Sheppo]

Now what you REALLY need.... is a 2001 KTM 400 EXC. I just so happen to know a guy who might be selling one.

I 'thought' you sold that... details?

[xrocket21]

My neighbor just bought a KTM 300 and loves it. Wagner is dumping them for $8600 I think he said. Seems like a solid deal

ummm.. BUY BUY BUY!

[nick5446]

What's the braintrust think about this one?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...9069601463923/

The 2019's have electric and kick, which I think I want. They also have TPI, which I think I also want. It's also got a plate and is reasonably priced.

[nhbubba]

One thing brought to my attention recently is plastics. They are all different. I believe that KTM has better long term support here as you will likely always be able to get plastics for a KTM enduro. Probably from non OEM sources too. However the same may not be true for Husky and GasGas. At least not to the same level. I believe that KTM outsells its cousins by an order of magnitude. Good or bad.

Don't forget the 200.. and I guess the 150's now too. I had a '12 200 XC-W that had XC gearing in it. It was a really, really fun enduro. If I still rode woods on the regular I'd have never given it up. I hear the 150 is the new 200. There was a chassis change in '12 that had me avoiding anything older than that. But then I'm sure there has been at least 2-3 chassis changes since. I don't know if they are as substantial as the '12 changes were.

I'm zeroing in on a 500 EXC-F and kinda feel the newer bikes are actually worse. They started taking away features under the guise of weight savings for the sake of weight savings. As an outsider looking in I was never clear why TPI was such a big deal, for example. I was never displeased having a carb and having to mix with my 200. Had I owned or ridden a TPI I maybe could have been convinced I was wrong. At some point changes are made to sell new bikes to owners of old bikes. The draw to "upgrade". Sometimes it is worth it sometimes maybe not.

Overall I do not think you can go wrong with a Orange 2T or its offspring.

[nick5446]

One thing brought to my attention recently is plastics. They are all different. I believe that KTM has better long term support here as you will likely always be able to get plastics for a KTM enduro. Probably from non OEM sources too. However the same may not be true for Husky and GasGas. At least not to the same level. I believe that KTM outsells its cousins by an order of magnitude. Good or bad.

Don't forget the 200.. and I guess the 150's now too. I had a '12 200 XC-W that had XC gearing in it. It was a really, really fun enduro. If I still rode woods on the regular I'd have never given it up. I hear the 150 is the new 200. There was a chassis change in '12 that had me avoiding anything older than that. But then I'm sure there has been at least 2-3 chassis changes since. I don't know if they are as substantial as the '12 changes were.

I'm zeroing in on a 500 EXC-F and kinda feel the newer bikes are actually worse. They started taking away features under the guise of weight savings for the sake of weight savings. As an outsider looking in I was never clear why TPI was such a big deal, for example. I was never displeased having a carb and having to mix with my 200. Had I owned or ridden a TPI I maybe could have been convinced I was wrong. At some point changes are made to sell new bikes to owners of old bikes. The draw to "upgrade". Sometimes it is worth it sometimes maybe not.

Overall I do not think you can go wrong with a Orange 2T or its offspring.

I was actually thinking about a 200, but at 200+lbs, I was a little weary of the power. When I looked into them more closely, they're the identical weight as a 300, so I don't see the benefit.

The 500s are sick, they unfortunately just don't suit my riding style/needs.

[OreoGaborio]

I 'thought' you sold that... details?

I did. My neighbor bought it, put some money into it to and is now likely going to sell it cuz he's unlikely to spend much time on it.

Those are about all the details I've got. Once he officially puts it up for sale I'll probably make a for sale thread on here for him or something.

[boosten lebaron]

One thing brought to my attention recently is plastics. They are all different. I believe that KTM has better long term support here as you will likely always be able to get plastics for a KTM enduro. Probably from non OEM sources too. However the same may not be true for Husky and GasGas. At least not to the same level. I believe that KTM outsells its cousins by an order of magnitude. Good or bad.

Don't forget the 200.. and I guess the 150's now too. I had a '12 200 XC-W that had XC gearing in it. It was a really, really fun enduro. If I still rode woods on the regular I'd have never given it up. I hear the 150 is the new 200. There was a chassis change in '12 that had me avoiding anything older than that. But then I'm sure there has been at least 2-3 chassis changes since. I don't know if they are as substantial as the '12 changes were.

I'm zeroing in on a 500 EXC-F and kinda feel the newer bikes are actually worse. They started taking away features under the guise of weight savings for the sake of weight savings. As an outsider looking in I was never clear why TPI was such a big deal, for example. I was never displeased having a carb and having to mix with my 200. Had I owned or ridden a TPI I maybe could have been convinced I was wrong. At some point changes are made to sell new bikes to owners of old bikes. The draw to "upgrade". Sometimes it is worth it sometimes maybe not.

Overall I do not think you can go wrong with a Orange 2T or its offspring.

My neighbor also bought the 150 before going back for the 300. I rode the 150 before he sold it. Top speed was 40mph ish. it was like a less torquey kdx200 i felt. Snappy and with a very linear powerband. I weigh 240 and felt it wasnt enough. Never got out of third on the trails, the bike just couldnt handle it. I havent ridden the 300 but im told it is worlds better than the 150.

[xrocket21]

What's the braintrust think about this one?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...9069601463923/

The 2019's have electric and kick, which I think I want. They also have TPI, which I think I also want. It's also got a plate and is reasonably priced.

I don't know why you literally aren't going to buy it right now. Low hours? 6 days? Tasteful mods? $5k?????

[Paul_E_D]

What's the braintrust think about this one?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...9069601463923/

The 2019's have electric and kick, which I think I want. They also have TPI, which I think I also want. It's also got a plate and is reasonably priced.

I believe they went away from TPI due to tuning difficulties. flame outs?

[Kurlon]

My neighbor also bought the 150 before going back for the 300. I rode the 150 before he sold it. Top speed was 40mph ish.

Did he have a massive throttle restrictor on it? My 2019 150SX would do WAY more than 40mph, with authority.

On TPI and why they went that path, emissions. You can't make a TBI burn as cleanly as a TPI. TPI allowed KTM to meet Euro standards while still being a smoker. There was a lot of people predicting doom and gloom with TPI, aftermarket TBI conversion kits 'cause easy market, but the people actually riding TPIs seem to be happy with them? The TBIs seem to behaving well too so far. I've not seen anything that's scare me off.

On the kicker front, my 500 had a provision for a kicker, lever was removed for weight savings, never once wished for it. I can see why KTM opted to delete the whole mechanism, decent weight savings, and fewer moving parts in total. My 250XC (2016, last of the carbs) again e-start and kicker, never once kicked it after de-swamping the abused starter to bring it back to life. Sheer neglect, no fault of the starter on that bike and once clean never hesitated. Modern batteries combined with FI, e-start's job is much easier these days.

[Crconnor18]

I’ve been pondering upgrading my ole 08 250f for a modern woods bike and these always interest me. The time of dealerships having pets on hand is gone so no matter what your ride you’re 5-10 days out on parts.

https://www.gpxmoto.com/tse300l

[boosten lebaron]

I looked at those gpx machines last year. I liked them but got irritated that some states can title them but I couldn't do I lost interest. On paper they are legit. In person they look nice.

[boosten lebaron]

Did he have a massive throttle restrictor on it? My 2019 150SX would do WAY more than 40mph, with authority.

On TPI and why they went that path, emissions. You can't make a TBI burn as cleanly as a TPI. TPI allowed KTM to meet Euro standards while still being a smoker. There was a lot of people predicting doom and gloom with TPI, aftermarket TBI conversion kits 'cause easy market, but the people actually riding TPIs seem to be happy with them? The TBIs seem to behaving well too so far. I've not seen anything that's scare me off.

On the kicker front, my 500 had a provision for a kicker, lever was removed for weight savings, never once wished for it. I can see why KTM opted to delete the whole mechanism, decent weight savings, and fewer moving parts in total. My 250XC (2016, last of the carbs) again e-start and kicker, never once kicked it after de-swamping the abused starter to bring it back to life. Sheer neglect, no fault of the starter on that bike and once clean never hesitated. Modern batteries combined with FI, e-start's job is much easier these days.

I didn't notice and restrictor on it and he didn't mention one. I would think the dealership would have told him about it since he was so desperate to get rid of it after a week.
It scouted up to 40 easily but then just ran out of gear. I don't know if the rpms are limited to keep the speed down.

[nick5446]

I’ve been pondering upgrading my ole 08 250f for a modern woods bike and these always interest me. The time of dealerships having pets on hand is gone so no matter what your ride you’re 5-10 days out on parts.

https://www.gpxmoto.com/tse300l

Definitely looks good on paper. It's a bit heavier than the others, and it looks like it's probably not street-able.