Ice riding winter 2012-2013

[RandyO]

hey stonner, is the lake safe yet ?

[Sheppo]

[Stoneman]

Ha! YOU can try it...

[RandyO]

I'll bet its thicker than it looks

[maxim_X]

I've been thinking about getting a set of winter tires for my KTM. It seems there are two basic types of studded tires. The carbide ones are for off road riding in the winter and the steel studs are for ice only riding. Is there any interchange? I'd love to keep riding dirt in the snow so I've been tossing up the idea of getting the carbide ones. But, a close friend of mine has an ice racing track (he uses for lawnmowers, weird right?) at his house. I'd love to take the bike to it. Will it be way out of it's element on carbide studs? Will the screw in studs hold up at all off road?

[B440]

You will not have enough carbide studs on the tire to navigate ice, if done properly. And you will have too many screws on a properly set up ice tire to navigate through the woods.

[maxim_X]

Is there any happy median?

[union]

Is there any happy median?

For both? Ya two sets of wheels and tires.

[csmutty]

Woods riding in the winter is meh. Ice riding and racing is where it's at. Find a few friends who are going out and a nice pond.

[B440]

Woods riding in the winter is meh. Ice riding and racing is where it's at. Find a few friends who are going out and a nice pond. Then pray for ice.

Fixed.

[GingahNinjah]

i wanna know when and where this is happening so i can show up with a lawn chair and a bottle of jameson and watch a bunch of guys falling on ice

[csmutty]

i wanna know when and where this is happening so i can show up with a lawn chair and a bottle of jameson and watch a bunch of guys falling on ice

Honestly...nobody really falls. It's quite rare.

[GingahNinjah]

ok then ill just get drunk and probably be the one falling but ill prob still have fun! lol

[Kurlon]

Honestly...nobody really falls. It's quite rare.

I spent more time on my ass than in the saddle the last time I was on ice. Fortunately I was on an SDG Pro Mini so I didn't have far to fall.

[gregp]

Seriously, any kind of winter motorcycle riding is very dependent on conditions. I prefer to keep trail riding, as going 'round and 'round (and 'round, and 'round..) on a lake or a pond gets very boring, very fast. Good lake/ice conditions happen more frequently than good snow/trail conditions, though. When the trails have been packed by sleds, and are frozen hard (usually early morning), woods speeds can be incredibly high. In rare circumstances, the snow is frozen so well that trails are not even needed, and you can just rip straight through the woods, as all of the under brush, rocks, and twigs are covered with a smooth, hard layer of snow.
Unfortunately, as posted here, the setup for each sport requires completely different approaches in traction devices.
The same goes for winter road use (car studs). Your tires will only be good for that purpose.
FWIW - Lake/pond traction devices are usually referred to as "screws", and trail traction devices are referred to as "studs", "carbides", or "rally spikes". Both come in different lengths and designs. The "screw" lengths refer to the length of thread of "screw" that screws into you tire. The "stud" lengths refer to the amount of spike the sticks out, above the knob.
"Studs" do not work well on lake/pond ice, and "screws" do not work well for trail use.

[breakdirt916]

greg - but for maxim, how about if he's just recreational ice riding?

I *read* a ride report that the studs were great on the trails, then "pretty good" when they hit an pond

imho - screws will die on trails, but studs will last on both

[gregp]

IMO, and in my own experience only, if he is using studs ($$!) on a lake/pond, and he is riding with other folks who have screws, he will not be having much fun (unless, maybe, if the "track" in not plowed, and there is a thick layer of frozen, crusty snow on top). The longer rally spikes will feel somewhat like you have a flat tire on the ice, as they fold over and wobble around. You may even destroy the expensive tires. They are just not made for that.

[gregp]

FWIW - I have been winter riding for over 35 years, and I have not found a method that is suitable (read: "Good Enough") for both conditions.
Now, the Speedway style spikes are another animal all together. They (and the tires they are installed in) are very special, and resemble extra long spikes from a medieval Mace. They may be suitable for both conditions, but I have never tried them.
The real problem is the rocks and logs that you encounter on the trails. These require very hard steel (carbide) to prevent the spikes from wearing out quickly. The rocks and logs can still snap the steel spike bases off, though, or rip the spike right out of the tire. Comparatively speaking, ice screws are soft steel (sometimes plated to prevent rusting), and I have found that, if you have a lighter, small displacement bike, and are cautious with the throttle, you can get by in the woods. Yes, you will lose a bunch, but you can just replace them, until your knobs get so torn up that they will not hold any more. The heads will dull almost immediately, though, and your next visit to the lake or pond will reveal that you have significantly less traction than your friends, who did not trail ride in between ice outings.
So, if by "casual ice riding" you mean riding with your feet out like outriggers, or keeping your bike straight up and down as you navigate the corners, then, sure, you can do both.

[RandyO]

i wanna know when and where this is happening so i can show up with a lawn chair and a bottle of jameson and watch a bunch of guys falling on ice

a properly setup ice tire will give you better traction than a race tire on dry pavement

[Stoneman]

FWIW-the 'track' we do every year is at least a half-mile in length with right and left-hand turns, switchbacks, sweepers & a hairpin. While I guess technically you can call it 'going round and round', I can assure you it's a different animal each time around it. Although I'm more of an ATV-kinda guy...

[Stoneman]

FWIW-the 'track' we do every year is at least a half-mile in length with right and left-hand turns, switchbacks, sweepers & a hairpin. While I guess technically you can call it 'going round and round', I can assure you it's a different animal each time around it. Although I'm more of an ATV-kinda guy...

I hope I didn't come off as the pissy little crack that may have made me seem like!

[gregp]

I understand, Stoneman, and I have ridden some tracks like that. I guess that I just miss the elevation changes, mostly. Please don't tell me that you have those, as well....!

[Kurlon]

a properly setup ice tire will give you better traction than a race tire on dry pavement

Assuming the rider isn't a pansy who's afraid to use the throttle to maintain grip... like this guy right here.

[GingahNinjah]

so when and where is this happening??

[B440]

so when and where is this happening??

the ice flew north to Canada and will be back briefly at the end of February