Poll: New track day NHMS

[sdog30]

I def need a day before first race weekend, just to make sure myself or the bikew ont blow up lol

That will most likely be my first day.

Personally I'll probably go to Jersey in March, too.

[MaRce1o]

Well first LRRS weekend is before Jersey. A lot of things will have been touched and adjusted on the bike and want to see if I remember how to ride as well so I rather be in Loudon since so many things can go bad and I'm closer to home

You're welcome to hop in with me for jersey if you want though...I'm sure well all be pitting along side each other anyway after getting kicked ou of the pub lol

[SVRACER01]

Wait... Jim is on staff?



LRRS is going to charge me $60 for 8 laps of Jim-passing.

You're only going to charge me roughly $200 to do it all day long?

Can I sign up right now?

not to shit on your parade Noel, but i was 10 feet shy of lapping you in the AM/NV race that was only 5 laps.

whoa whoa whoa.....i get pass jim and lap noel...in the same day...per session? im in

sounds good Sam. good luck. if you need any help let me know.

[GixerJockey]

not to shit on your parade Noel, but i was 10 feet shy of lapping you in the AM/NV race that was only 5 laps.

First time on rains... and basically scared shitless.


See you in the spring.

my bad. I should have just stuffed him in 12 rather than letting him get through safely.

You sir, are a gentleman.

[GixerJockey]

Where can I see what trackdays are already scheduled at NHMS for 2014?

[Chippertheripper]

Probably on the fishtail and penguin sites; the only 2 orgs that have booked them so far, to my knowledge.

[TTD]

Since I've been mentioned a few times... thought I'd post up.

TTD is not done with NHMS... just taking a year off (and maybe not completely... still waiting to hear back). Because NHMS cannot offer dates until late in the year, we were already pretty full at the other tracks. Plans are in place to have a much bigger presence in 2015 in the NH area.

And don't forget history! The answer is to get NEW riders to start doing trackdays. Taking the same trackday riders (here and BORN) and then dividing them into more and more trackdays is a losing plan. You end up with everyone having half full days - which means everyone loses.

Between Fishtail and Penguin, I would think those that want to ride in NH have a place to do so. Penguin for the fast folks and Fishtail for the slower (of course there is overlap)

[kb1]

Seems like a pretty good idea Sam; but in my limited time involved in motorcycle track days, I have watched multiple track day groups come and go after eating their shirt. Just be careful.

IMHO it is not always about the track, but the organizations we ride with. Variety, the presentation, and customer service are big pieces for much of the local track day community. Racers may feel differently, but remember that those committing to racing are a small portion of the overall track day community. I myself would rather ride an unknown track with an organization I know and trust, than a track I know well with an organization I never had dealings with. That said, if I am fortunate enough to pick up a bike for next year, I will be riding with Tony.

[SVRACER01]

if you never have dealings with other TD orgs then you wont get to know and trust them.
ive ridden with many many TD orgs, and not one of them has ever made me never want to ride with them again.

[kb1]

if you never have dealings with other TD orgs then you wont get to know and trust them.
ive ridden with many many TD orgs, and not one of them has ever made me never want to ride with them again.

I don't disagree…however generally the market tends to support known name brands, not just in track days, but in general economics. Penguin, Tony's Track Days, and Boston Moto are the 'name brand' around here. With a few outlier organizations (like Fishtail). With a limited window of track time in New England most people are going to especially gravitate to organizations they know and trust to get the best bang for their buck. Someone (like me) who would do 3 or 4 days a year. One bad day with an organization kills 25% of my season, I would rather go in knowing I'm getting a good product. Now he needs to convince 40+ people that it's worth taking the chance. Getting through that door, and still breaking even is going to be a lot more challenging than many on here seem to think.

Overall I hope he has success… more track day organizations hopefully is an indicator of a higher demand for track time. More organizations means greater competition and better pricing for the consumer.

I have just met Sam and hung out with him in the past, and would hate to see him lose his shirt like a couple other guys did. That would suck.

[Jim]

for the record....no vendor at NHMS has ever "lost their shirt". many just stop doing them because it's not profitable enough to make it worth the time commitment.

...well maybe Savas lost his shirt, because that goofy Greek seems to never wear one at the track.

[kb1]

for the record....no vendor at NHMS has ever "lost their shirt". many just stop doing them because it's not profitable enough to make it worth the time commitment.

...well maybe Savas lost his shirt, because that goofy Greek seems to never wear one at the track.

So you know every owner of all the orgs that have tried to run track days at NHMS? I was not referencing any of the organizations we all currently frequent. But I know for a fact at least one that lost a considerable amount of money after they couldn't fill a couple days to cover their costs.

[sdog30]

I totally agree with you Tony.

I think loudon has been the only show in town and so multiple track orgs doesn't work. Not enough scraps to go around. This year, though it seems like it has opened up. I actually was under the impression that you had 2 days booked at loudon, but new you were focusing on ny and ct.

I'm really not trying to compete against the other orgs or take away from yours or their programs. I actually think you run a very organized track day. Same with penguin and I don't know fishtail, but they seem to be doing something right.

And Matt, your right, I'm not established. That's kind of why I threw this poll up. I think enough people know me on this forum and in the racing community to know if they want to test the waters. I figure I can get the rest by offering some unique packages (insert joke).

I'll only be testing the waters with several events this year anyways, so I'm sure Tony, Eric and Robbie have nothing to worry about from me

[TTD]

… more track day organizations hopefully is an indicator of a higher demand for track time. More organizations means greater competition and better pricing for the consumer.

I agree with most of what you said, but this part comes with a caveat.

If there truly is more demand, then more organizations is good.

If it's just the same riders - now spread out among more trackday org's - then it's a loser for all.

Yes, there may be some price competition that ends up getting consumers a lower price for a year - but in the long run there will be fewer available trackdays.

It's quite simple. If 100 people attend a TTD, it's profitable and I continue to run trackdays.

If those 100 people divide up into two different trackday orgs - then both trackday orgs are losing money - and then stop running trackdays.

The only successful solution is to get 200 people doing trackdays - then there is room for more organizations.

(just throwing out the 100 number for example... actual number depends on the track)

On a related note - while I enjoy running trackdays, it is definitely a "job" and has its stressful times like any job. I just came back from being a "customer" at the Barber track down in Alabama and it's so much nicer just being able to ride.

[sdog30]

My mission is this:

Provide a very well priced practice space for racers at a track they race at with 15-20 minute sessions every hour while also offering a very structured introduction to riding on the track to new riders. I believe it can be done. It doesn't need to be either/or. The racers are in their own group. At that stage they really need minimal instruction in my opinion. If they do, I suggest they take the advanced course with penguin. I have a plan of offering personal instruction (don't worry, not with me) as well.

Having the advanced group self regulate themselves with a few control rider to make sure everyone is playing safe allows more staff to really work with the beginners and intermediate riders. Ultimately, I'd be thrilled if we added more racers to lrrs and continue to make it strong again.

I think that's why most of us go to the track in the first place, isn't it? We get this crazy notion that maybe we could be racers? Even if we can't, we get to ride our bikes really fast in a controlled area and it sounds cool when we tell our co-workers about on Monday.

[kb1]

I used to go to the track and just pose next to Neil because he's fast…osmosis…it failed.

At any rate … good luck Sam!

[sdog30]

I think a piece is missing from your equation though Tony.

Your adding more customers from Ct and Ny/Nj. So now maybe you have 150, but lose 50 that live in nh/vt/me.

I'm just picking up those 50 and maybe 50 from other orgs that won't be attending nh. Don't be greedy

[Chippertheripper]

You've gotta take a hard line with your group rules if you're going to allow an open swim in advanced.

I've seen it work well, but it's gotta be policed well, and you've gotta take and bump the slowskis back down. It's dangerous to leave them out there.
And even some not so slowskis that use ridiculous lines...

[TTD]

I'm really not trying to compete against the other orgs or take away from yours or their programs. ...

I'll only be testing the waters with several events this year anyways, so I'm sure Tony, Eric and Robbie have nothing to worry about from me

Don't be silly... Of course you are trying to compete and take away from other orgs. If you are not able to take away enough customers then you will not be successful.

[sdog30]

I really think the loyal customers to TTD are going to buy your membership because it's a great deal and there are lots of dates and some new tracks to choose from. If they want to ride nh, they'll go up for the two days your doing because they have the membership and it makes sense. I don't really see taking any of those customers from you.

If those customers want to do more nh days, I think they would buy your membership and buy a day or two from me. Maybe I'm wrong. My main target is racers, and people that want to ride in nh. With 5 tracks all within our area I feel like there is a lot more track time available for everyone.

[sdog30]

Don't be silly... Of course you are trying to compete and take away from other orgs. If you are not able to take away enough customers then you will not be successful.

Let's say you are only doing 2 days at nh and Boston moto is doing none. If you were doing 6 days last year and Boston moto was doing 2, that means there are 6 days available. That's simple math to me. 600 potential spots. How does that take from you or any of the other orgs?

[TTD]

With 5 tracks all within our area I feel like there is a lot more track time available for everyone.

There is definitely more track time available. Are there enough riders to fill all the dates currently on the schedules? Are there enough to fill even MORE days (like you're thinking of adding?).

I'm betting no, otherwise I would rent a bunch more NH dates myself.

[butcher bergs]

Sam, you're a smart dude so I'm sure you're well aware of the number of attendees required to make a trackday successful in that regard. Don't lose sight of the fact that you have 27 votes total at this time. That said, I hope you aren't relying on one data point (being this forum) as your descision-maker.

Best of luck regardless!

[TTD]

Let's say you are only doing 2 days at nh and Boston moto is doing none. If you were doing 6 days last year and Boston moto was doing 2, that means there are 6 days available. That's simple math to me. 600 potential spots. How does that take from you or any of the other orgs?

Those riders have to now make the trip to the CT dates. Just like the CT riders have been coming up to the NH dates for years.

If those riders instead go to your new NH dates - instead of trying the CT track - then it's directly affecting me.

Again, that's business and I'm not saying you can't do what you want - but don't kid yourself and think there's a huge pentup group of riders that can't find tracktime.

[sdog30]

Tony, I value your opinion, I really do. I recognize you've been doing this for a while and know a thing or two about the business. I'm not completely convinced this is what I'm going to do, just throwing the feelers out there.

To be honest, I set this poll up to guage potential customer interest, not track day orgs.