track accident & insurance question

[Nuss]

So I highsided at NHMS with TTD and ended up breaking both of my hands. Over confidence, inexperience, and highside hill. My health insurance has been great so far but I recently got a letter from a 3rd party asking me to define the type of accident to see if another party should foot the bill. I assume its meant for street/on-road accident and duking it out between auto insurances but I never submitted a claim with progressive.

Is a crash on a track considered an "automobile accident" or does it fall under another realm? What do you think is the best way to respond?

[tls25rs]

Honesty!

It may be short term financially painful but much less so than insurance fraud charges and anything that is associated with them. Or, you may wind up with everything being taken care of without issue which would obviously be the best situation.

Joel

[TTD]

The simple answer I always give is the accident did not happen on the road and no one else was involved.

It's a standard form letter you're getting, don't sweat it. (I've gotten lots of 'em, unfortunately)

[WordTooYoMamma]

http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/...insurance.html

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted

The simple answer I always give is the accident did not happen on the road and no one else was involved.

It's a standard form letter you're getting, don't sweat it. (I've gotten lots of 'em, unfortunately)

What tony says.

Don't worry, it's not that they are looking for you to pay.

[tls25rs]

Tony and Degsy make good points.

Joel

[loudog]

The simple answer I always give is the accident did not happen on the road and no one else was involved.

It's a standard form letter you're getting, don't sweat it. (I've gotten lots of 'em, unfortunately)

+1

I received one after breaking my collarbone during a race, and just told the truth. All bills were paid by insurance as expected.

If you lied, and they found out (somehow)...that'd be a different story and they would not be required to pay based on my understanding of a typical policy (due to the lack of truthiness).

[CBR929RE]

I remember talking to someone about this. I forget if it was my health insurance company or someone from the hospital. but I made sure to tell them it happened on the racetrack and made sure they understood the bike isn't even covered by an auto insurance policy. It sounded like that made their job easier.

[xsiliconkid]

there are two types of insurance potentially involved
a. personal health/medical insurance
b. Vehicle Insurance


When I spent a week in hospital 2 years back after crashing at NJMP - the hospital folk asked me more than once was I certain the accident wasn't on public roads. I asked them, what's the difference?
Reply - If it was on public roads then they would by law have to file their claim though vehicle insurance. If I did not have vehicle insurance then it would be a fight with the medical insurance-medical would not immediately cover. But on private property they had never seen a medical claim rejected.

re: medical insurance
If you state the accident was on a closed circuit private property then b. typically does not get involved. And medical is happy to cover all costs under your insurance contract

[Nuss]

Wow, so many responses in just a day...I guess the season can't come soon enough.

For the record, I wasn't thinking to lie to them and commit fraud, rather I was really looking for right terminology that'd make my response more straightforward. I think Tony nailed it and I'll say it wasn't on public roads (closed circuit private property) with no one else involved. Thank you all for the responses. And I'm looking forward to A) being healed and B) getting back on the horse.

Also Tony still has my back protector so really I have to go back.

http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/...insurance.html

Crazy read haha that was some flame war but congrats on getting it sorted out.

[tls25rs]

Nuss,

Don't take my post as me insinuating that you were thinking about lying to the insurances companies and committing fraud. My post was more a cautionary thing. Lots of people try to get things over on the insurance companies and some times it works out but when it doesn't it isn't a good thing for anyone. Telling them exactly what was going on when the injury happened and what not usually works out the best in the end. To Tony, Degsy and Graham's points, give them the information they need and it will hopefully work out in your favor.

I had a similar situation with a broken wrist riding a four wheeler and the insurance companies kept calling me, and sending me letters, looking for another insurance company to get their money back from. It came down to, it was an injury caused by my mistake, on public land, on an uninsured vehicle so my health insurance wound up covering it. They tried for years to find someone else to bill though.

Best of luck getting it sorted out!

Joel

[TTD]

They tried for years to find someone else to bill though.
Joel

This is why I say exactly what I wrote above. It ends the conversation.

After my first crash I was vague with my responses and it resulted in phone calls and more letters.

Each time I said - "it was not on a public road and did not involve any other people" - it was over immediately.

[nhbubba]

Don't they ask who's land it was on?

Do they ever try to go after the track or track-day operator? At what point does track or track-day liability come into question? Do they ever try to prove that an accident was the result of negligence?

This whole discussion is terrifying. I hope I never have to learn the answers to any of these questions first hand.

Best of luck to you guys going through this.

Our expensive healthcare sucks.
Money sucks.
Lawyers suck.

[jasnmar]

This is standard stoooopid insurance BS.

A few years ago my daughter fell down the stairs and broke her wrist. ER. Surgery. Pins. Blah, blah blah. A couple months later I got a short questionnaire asking a few things about the "incident". The first question was something to the effect of "Was this an accident?". I, stupidy, thought "No, it wasn't an accident. She intentionally fell down the effing stairs landing with her arm in that position, of course it was an accident". Did that initiate a mess of shit.

A couple years later, again, my daughter, tripped in the kitchen and put her hand on the hot burner. ER. Letter from insurance. No, this was not an accident. We constructed a detailed plan of how to arrange the cat so that she would trip over it and place her hand on the stove that my wife had just turn off. Do you know how much planning it takes to hurd a cat into the exact position at the exact right time you silly insurance people?

Every year, each time anyone in my family visits the Dr. within a couple weeks I get a "form letter" in the mail with an "insurance survey" that I need to fill out to verify that none of them have magically become covered by any other medical insurance plans that just may be responsible for some of the Dr. bill. I get this each time a family member visits the Dr. 4/year. Every year. Can only be mailed in, no online form to fill out. If I don't fill it out, they will call me. They won't take my reply via the phone. I have to "send in the form". (Actually I don't remember having received the "form" last year, I'll know soon enough if they've gotten rid of this as it is a new and exciting insurance year).

[ThisBitch]

They don't ask for land or company. All they want to know is if someone else was at fault and their insurance should be paying. It's an automatic letter that is generated at the insurance company's provider when the CPT code on your treatments and diagnosis indicate some type of accident. Shit, I got a letter when I twisted my ankle stepping off my front step because it was an accident.

The liability waivers you sign with any good track day organization will keep any insurance company at bay.

[Nuss]

Nuss,

Don't take my post as me insinuating that you were thinking about lying to the insurances companies and committing fraud. My post was more a cautionary thing. Lots of people try to get things over on the insurance companies and some times it works out but when it doesn't it isn't a good thing for anyone. Telling them exactly what was going on when the injury happened and what not usually works out the best in the end. To Tony, Degsy and Graham's points, give them the information they need and it will hopefully work out in your favor.

I had a similar situation with a broken wrist riding a four wheeler and the insurance companies kept calling me, and sending me letters, looking for another insurance company to get their money back from. It came down to, it was an injury caused by my mistake, on public land, on an uninsured vehicle so my health insurance wound up covering it. They tried for years to find someone else to bill though.

Best of luck getting it sorted out!

Joel

No worries thanks!

[nhbubba]

The liability waivers you sign with any good track day organization will keep any insurance company at bay.

I had forgotten about those waivers. That makes sense.

What a cluster.

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted

The liability waivers you sign with any good track day organization will keep any insurance company at bay.

I had forgotten about those waivers. That makes sense.

What a cluster.

We (Boston Moto) get health insurance companies trying to see if we can be held liable. It has happened twice. We refer them to our insurance company and that's the end of it.

[carsick]

Wirelessly posted



health insurance companies trying to see if we can be held liable. It has happened twice.

Twice that you've been held liable??

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted

Oops. No. Twice we have been asked.

If we had been held liable we would sop running trackdays.

[ThisBitch]

I like to think of Degsy (in his voice) saying

"If you'll refer to section 3, paragraph 2 of our waver, it is clearly stated that 'You can't fight physics and you can't fix stupid.'"

[nhbubba]

This whole discussion is terrifying. I hope I never have to learn the answers to any of these questions first hand.

Welp, here I am. I am now a two time unplanned NHMS pavement surfer. After my first excursion I dinged my shoulder a bit and wound up going to PT. (Actually still going to PT!) Now I get the letter from the ins co saying they want to have a little chat.

So the phrase is "it was not on a public road and did not involve any other people"?

[MarkMarine]

Welp, here I am. I am now a two time unplanned NHMS pavement surfer. After my first excursion I dinged my shoulder a bit and wound up going to PT. (Actually still going to PT!) Now I get the letter from the ins co saying they want to have a little chat.

So the phrase is "it was not on a public road and did not involve any other people"?

Yup. Explain over and over you were on a private track, on an off road vehicle, where no one was insured. It's a pain in the ass, they should give us laminated cards that say this to hold up.

[xsiliconkid]

Yup. Explain over and over you were on a private track, on an off road vehicle, where no one was insured. It's a pain in the ass, they should give us laminated cards that say this to hold up.

I ended up spending a week in a hospital 2 years back after an on track incident - I talked at length with blue cross blue shield (my health insurance) about this... it was explained to me that -in most motor vehicle accidents a portion of medial costs can go against someone's vehicle insurance (as with road accidents). Once the insurance company understands/or believes the above, it all is well.

[CBR929RE]

I ended up spending a week in a hospital 2 years back after an on track incident - I talked at length with blue cross blue shield (my health insurance) about this... it was explained to me that -in most motor vehicle accidents a potion of medial costs can go against someone's vehicle insurance (as with road accidents). Once the insurance company understands/or believes the above, it all is well.

this is my experience as well. road accident the hospital check in lady said it would go against vehicle insurance first, which it didn't because in MA you pay PIP but by law are denied the coverage on a motorcycle. you need the extra optional medical insurance if you want your vehicle insurance to cover you. my track accident I was on the phone with my health insurance for only a minute or two. Told them it was on a race track not public road and that was all she needed to know.