Would this be a good trade?

[KawiSmurf]

I've been BS-ing back and forth with someone over the idea of a straight trade. My bike is an '07 Kawi 650R, with about 12k miles, and a little over $1k in upgrades. The bike I want is a '98 TL1000R, with about 4500 miles, and aftermarket exhaust. They both have pretty much the exact same resale value at this point, so that's why I'll be trading straight out.

Question is...does this seem like a great trade to you? I'm just making sure I'm not jumping into this deal without considering all the facts. I know my bike is almost a decade newer, but I really want the TL-R, I always have, and this is the best one I've seen yet. Are there any TL-R owners (or previous owners) that have an opinion on the matter? Just looking for input on anything that could pop up as a deal breaker, or anything I should be weary of.





(This pic is of a 2000 model, so colors are slightly different, but pretty much same bike)

[gixxersixxer]

Eh, I think I'd make him give you a little cash too since yours is much newer

[JohnnyV]

I won't comment on the financials of the deal, but with regards to the TL-R.....

I fucking loved that bike, and if anything were to ever happen to the Daytona I would be on the hunt for one immediately.

[KawiSmurf]

I fucking loved that bike, and if anything were to ever happen to the Daytona I would be on the hunt for one immediately.

Hmm...that sentiment seems to be shared among a lot of TL owners. Ultimately, that'll be a legitimate concern of mine, whether or not I can really love this bike as much as love my Ninja. The 650R is an amazing bike, but the suspension is crap, feels like its holding me back on the track a little. I wanted something with some range of adjustability...and a little more torque wouldn't hurt either

[jwm2k3]

I would be all over that TLR

[richw]

I am really surprised the values are similar

[KawiSmurf]

I am really surprised the values are similar

According to KBB, retail for mine is $4750, retail for the TL-R is $4130. Factoring in the difference in mileage and mods, I figure they'd be about even. But that's just my opinion.

[JohnnyV]

Get an Elka rear and have Mark do his TL magic and you'll be happier than a pig in shit.

[Doc]

Hmm...that sentiment seems to be shared among a lot of TL owners. Ultimately, that'll be a legitimate concern of mine, whether or not I can really love this bike as much as love my Ninja. The 650R is an amazing bike, but the suspension is crap, feels like its holding me back on the track a little. I wanted something with some range of adjustability...and a little more torque wouldn't hurt either

The TLR is gonna hold you back at NHMS on the track more. (heavy, not flickable) Buy proper suspension for the Kawi and see what happens. Then uncork the motor.

If you want torque for the track buy an SV650 for $3500

Sorry, not a fan of the TLR. Always struck me as a heavy bike. But honestly I have only ridden one once for a short time.

[BCT748]

Eh, I think I'd make him give you a little cash too since yours is much newer

And you work at a dealership?

[Just_Jeff]

If your looking to track it, then put some cash into the 650R. I redid the front and rear on my 2006 as well as adding an exhaust. It makes a huge difference.
but then again on most budget bikes dumping 1500 into it should make a huge difference

As much as I love the ZX6R i still kick myself for not holding onto the 650R as well.
(In full stock mode)

[gixxersixxer]

And you work at a dealership?

Yes I do, not in sales..what's wrong with tha statement? It's dead technology. True it has more torque and HP but still the Ninja is worth more.

[ultrabaka]

I rode a modded TL1000R through some twisties after deciding to upgrade from a GSXR 600, but I found it really nose heavy and you got to fight it to get it turned in. It had a full Yoshi system and power commander so it sounded nice and moved out, but I couldn't really get on it above 80 on the roads I ran it. I don't know about the 650 but my current 750 is light years ahead of the TL in maneuverability.


I think I'd prefer an RC-51 over the TL since it dominated all the other twins in racing. As far as the trade being even or not, I don't know until you post pics the bike.

[BCT748]

Yes I do, not in sales..what's wrong with tha statement? It's dead technology. True it has more torque and HP but still the Ninja is worth more.

It's only worth a few hundred more bone stock. They are two different bikes so you can't just base the value on the year. I could name off tons of bikes that are over ten years old and are worth more than his bike, your bike or my bike.

[gixxersixxer]

I realize that and since he wants to do a straight trade then it's probably fine but I would still try to get a couple hundred out.

[RandyO]

Rochester Motorsports has a TLR for sale

[butcher bergs]

TLR is a fatass by comparison and also 11yrs old. It makes thumping sounds and that's likely what attracts you to it.

I can't believe I'm about to say this but, I agree with Doc wholeheartedly.

[zxsick]

i think its against the law or something to trade a kawi for a suzuki. if you want a something to go to the track with get a zx6r. change the gearing on it for some more torque. and get a exhaust pc3 and air cleaner for some xtra power. there light and quite powerful for a 600. youll be lovin life for real. 05-06 are about 4-5k so its still in the price range.

[KawiSmurf]

Thanks for all the input, folks. Gave me some stuff to ponder. As far as upgrading my suspension, that was my original plan, but I wasn't sure if spending the $1200-1500 would've been worth it. I always felt I was just a little too big for the 650R, and that maybe being a bigger guy would help in trying to manuever a TL-R. But maybe that's all in my head. I think I need to take the TL for a test ride to be sure, but I hear what you guys are saying.

The TLR is gonna hold you back at NHMS on the track more. (heavy, not flickable) Buy proper suspension for the Kawi and see what happens. Then uncork the motor.

I know bigger/heavier bikes can be a bane at Loudon, so I'm keeping that in mind. In terms of the motor, I've done enough to get the airflow almost completely unrestricted (removed intake baffles, installed high flow DNA filter, fully Muzzy system), and honestly the power output is not a huge deal. I passed on the PCIII, someone else that races the 650R told me its not really necessary with the setup I currently have. As for suspension, see my remarks above.

If your looking to track it, then put some cash into the 650R. I redid the front and rear on my 2006 as well as adding an exhaust. It makes a huge difference.
but then again on most budget bikes dumping 1500 into it should make a huge difference

As much as I love the ZX6R i still kick myself for not holding onto the 650R as well.

Your comments hold some weight, because I've thought about getting a ZX-6R, or something similar. I keep getting comments about how the 650R is an excellent track bike (once the major components are swapped out), but I'm wondering if it'll be fruitless to try and turn it into something it wasn't intended to be (a supersport). Then again, I guess that's half the fun of building up a track bike yourself...

TLR is a fatass by comparison and also 11yrs old. It makes thumping sounds and that's likely what attracts you to it.

Bergs, once again your words strike right to the heart of my dilemma. I LOVE the fact that its a big ol' thumping twin. But I guess I shouldn't get so blinded between what I see the TL-R as, and what it actually is. Oink, oink, baby.

I'll probably try to take a run on the TL1000R if I get a chance, but unless it completely rocks my world, I guess I can stick with the Ninja and slowly (very slowly) transform it.

[GNTurbo6]

I'd say its a worthwhile trade. KBB value estimates that the bike has average mileage for the year which is 3k/year. That TLR is way below that while your's is above that. Really what it comes down to is what kind of bike you're looking for.

[dankatz]

I think the 650 is worth about $500 more, but if you really want this specific TLR and the guy wants your 650 than the $500 is worth blowing since you won't have the hassle of having to sell your bike.

[kb1]

I'm going to agree with Doc here...you're trading a much more technologically advanced, nimbler bike, for an older, much heavier, thumping twin.

[Doc]

Holy crap!! Two people agree with me!?

[butcher bergs]

Easy there Doc. Hell hath frozen once before.

[GixerJockey]

Holy crap!! Two people agree with me!?

Easy there Doc. Hell hath frozen once before.

But never twice before Paul...



I'm with Doc... and everyone else that said it's a big, fat, outdated motorcycle that didn't really do much "right" even when it was new. It will be exhausting to navigate around Loudon. And wrestling it will probably stunt your progress as a new track rider.

Now, you will certainly find people that sing the TLR's praises, but understand that this motorcycle has somewhat of a cult following. The few guys that love them, love them with all their heart and soul... but they can't really give you a solid reason to want to join their cult. The rest of us think that riding a TLR is like getting head from a fat chick. Entertaining, but you wouldn't be there if you had another offer...