2025 Ducati V4

[Paul_E_D]

I haven't gotten along with any V4 Ducs that I have sampled so far, but I got to look at the new one the other day and I have to admit, it has my attention. First thing that struck me was how much attention to detail went into this thing. People have whinged about the new swingarm design, but holy hell, they have basically produced a quick change system on a stock motorcycle. It's brilliant. Even the rearsets have incredible details. Like a flush mounted rear brake adjuster where your heel rests. The throttle assembly literally feels like a swiss watch. It makes japanese bike, and frankly almost all ather euro bikes even seem like chinese toy bikes. You get what you pay for in some cases.

The new tank looks like a much more rider focused design. The real downside of the V4s in my experience was how ridiculously aggressive the motors were. Great for the oh shit factor, but really not easy to actually ride fast on track. The new electronics package is supposed to address some of that, but it borders on AI riding. Not sure how I feel about that, but I do want to test such a fine piece of jewelry.

[Kurlon]

but holy hell, they have basically produced a quick change system on a stock motorcycle.

Homologation specials were doing this in the late 80s and early 90s... about time it came back around.

[Paul_E_D]

Homologation specials were doing this in the late 80s and early 90s... about time it came back around.

This is on all the models. And it is incredibly cool in it's implementation. Precision wheel adjusters have little shelves machined in. The wheel with spacers can be inserted and rests on the shelves while you slide it forward to put the chain on, get the axle lined up etc. This is such a Duh kind of thing. Why doesn't every bike have this?

[union]

Wow that bike gets expensive quick. What trim level were you looking at? 33k for the S model and then another 8500 for the exhaust system. It is going to cost more then my new Tundra before I'm done.

[Paul_E_D]

I ogled at the S. That exhaust is sexy as hell. But I would buy the base model as I don't want electronic suspension. Realistically, I am not a buyer. But the engineering brilliance cannot be denied.

[Kurlon]

This is on all the models. And it is incredibly cool in it's implementation. Precision wheel adjusters have little shelves machined in. The wheel with spacers can be inserted and rests on the shelves while you slide it forward to put the chain on, get the axle lined up etc. This is such a Duh kind of thing. Why doesn't every bike have this?

Yeah, that's how my Fizzer was, and it's not like it's super-complicated for Yamaha to machine. Captive spacers, those little shelves, if you go underslung with the brake caliper's captive bracket it's that much more room to work with AND you can skip machining the shelf on one side. Did they tweak the front fender mount so you can leave the calipers bolted on and still pull and install the front wheel? It's 2024, at a minimum captive spacers should be the norm dang it!

[JettaJayGLS]

Looks like some motoGP is trickling into street bikes.

I have to imagine racing with electronics is overtaking club racing. I've nerd'ed out a bit on motoGP electronics this year, and it really seems just having them doesn't solve everything, you need to learn to ride with them.
I think of it as the swap from 2-stroke to 4-stroke. Yes, the 4 stroke is easier, but it takes a big talent to squeeze everything out of it.

[Paul_E_D]

Looks like some motoGP is trickling into street bikes.

I have to imagine racing with electronics is overtaking club racing. I've nerd'ed out a bit on motoGP electronics this year, and it really seems just having them doesn't solve everything, you need to learn to ride with them.
I think of it as the swap from 2-stroke to 4-stroke. Yes, the 4 stroke is easier, but it takes a big talent to squeeze everything out of it.

It's strange, all this development is going into the liter bikes, and the grids are empty, or full of middleweights. Not sure the electronic advantages are enough to overcome the violent power the bikes have. When I tested a bunch of ducatis I was EASILY fastest on the lowly 959 with 135 hp. Will it happen eventually? not sure. Electronics are an impediment to lap times on bikes with 150HP or less IMO.

That said, if I owned one of these beasts, I'm sure I could learn to go faster on it.

[JettaJayGLS]

Is that a London observation or other, more big bike friendly, tracks?

[loudbeard]

I think talent plays a bit of a role here too. Paul is at the pointy end around here, but the gap to the pros (no offense) is pretty wide. I think there’s a reason we don’t see any 600’s gridded with MA SuperBike

[Paul_E_D]

Yes, I am fully saying here that I don't have the talent to ride a V4 effectively. I have always been a small bike specialist though.

I am not referencing Loudon as I have never ridden a liter bike there. Thompson, Palmer, Club and NCbike. I am not convinced that we have any big bike tracks beside COTA and Daytona in the U.S.

Anyway, I am curious to own one to see what I can learn about the point and shoot style and just managing that much power.

[Kurlon]

I think talent plays a bit of a role here too. Paul is at the pointy end around here, but the gap to the pros (no offense) is pretty wide. I think there’s a reason we don’t see any 600’s gridded with MA SuperBike

Well... there's those pesky rules that mean you never will see a 600 in MA SuperBike...

On the pros with access to electronics below 150hp front, the KTM 890 duke has given racers fits in Hooligans because you have to choose between having the rider aids OR not having a top speed limit if you're not wholesale swapping ECUs entirely. At least one crash has been attributed by the rider to making the choice for top speed and thus loosing any traction control. Interestingly for 2025 MotoAmerica has mandated ABS must be defeated on all bikes in SuperHooligans.

[Paul_E_D]

Well, yes, ABS is generally dangerous on track. That's a great rule. We routinely threshold brake, and as soon as the ABS intervenes, you are no longer going to make the corner. The linked braking strategy on the 25 Duc has me intrigued. Will it be just one more thing to remove?

[nick5446]

I ogled at the S. That exhaust is sexy as hell. But I would buy the base model as I don't want electronic suspension. Realistically, I am not a buyer. But the engineering brilliance cannot be denied.

Curious why you wouldn't want electronic suspension?

[Paul_E_D]

Curious why you wouldn't want electronic suspension?

Like ABS it is an intervention outside of the rider's control. I don't believe you will find any expert club racers or professionals using electronic suspension. (someone will prove me wrong). Of all things you want completely predictable, suspension is it! it is fundamental to manufacturing and maintaining traction.

[Crconnor18]

I’ve heard of stories where the early iterations of electronic suspension systems used a process along the lines of machine learning to pickup the tracks being ridden and on early laps was way out whack. I swear someone at NYST had something go wrong on wheelie hill with their suspension.

Then again NYST can be a wild place and a majority of the regulars out there I’d never take advice from or believe some of their experiences

[ducatirdr]

My last big track bike was a 2016 R1. The thing ate rear tires like cops on free donuts. That is the downfall of liter bikes on smaller tracks. The benefit was the electronics the modern liter bikes now come with that are simply amazing when your tires turn to goo. I have pushed a modern R1 past its tire limits and used its slide control and felt the tire hook up picking the front off the ground while lifting the bike up and rotating on its axis, just on the rear. I don't have the skill to do that on a liter bike, (maybe a dirt bike). But to experience that thrill of a knee down into a wheelie and ride the thing rotating it on the rear made me feel like a world champion in my own mind. To me that is the best part of these top of the food chain bikes. That experience hooning around the track having fun and not looking for best lap times but to experience the wizardry of the a lurid slide into a wheelie without the reaction time of a 25 year old MotoGP rider.

I am retired from the 200bhp track bikes and there is one bike that looks like it could be the best possible contender for the ultimate New England track day bike. The RC900. Too bad KTM is struggling. I think that RC could be the most fun possible on track with a streetbike.

[Paul_E_D]

My last big track bike was a 2016 R1. The thing ate rear tires like cops on free donuts. That is the downfall of liter bikes on smaller tracks. The benefit was the electronics the modern liter bikes now come with that are simply amazing when your tires turn to goo. I have pushed a modern R1 past its tire limits and used its slide control and felt the tire hook up picking the front off the ground while lifting the bike up and rotating on its axis, just on the rear. I don't have the skill to do that on a liter bike, (maybe a dirt bike). But to experience that thrill of a knee down into a wheelie and ride the thing rotating it on the rear made me feel like a world champion in my own mind. To me that is the best part of these top of the food chain bikes. That experience hooning around the track having fun and not looking for best lap times but to experience the wizardry of the a lurid slide into a wheelie without the reaction time of a 25 year old MotoGP rider.

I am retired from the 200bhp track bikes and there is one bike that looks like it could be the best possible contender for the ultimate New England track day bike. The RC900. Too bad KTM is struggling. I think that RC could be the most fun possible on track with a streetbike.

Yeah, that's pretty much why I want to own a Liter bike at least for a few years.

[xrocket21]

My last big track bike was a 2016 R1. The thing ate rear tires like cops on free donuts. That is the downfall of liter bikes on smaller tracks. The benefit was the electronics the modern liter bikes now come with that are simply amazing when your tires turn to goo. I have pushed a modern R1 past its tire limits and used its slide control and felt the tire hook up picking the front off the ground while lifting the bike up and rotating on its axis, just on the rear. I don't have the skill to do that on a liter bike, (maybe a dirt bike). But to experience that thrill of a knee down into a wheelie and ride the thing rotating it on the rear made me feel like a world champion in my own mind. To me that is the best part of these top of the food chain bikes. That experience hooning around the track having fun and not looking for best lap times but to experience the wizardry of the a lurid slide into a wheelie without the reaction time of a 25 year old MotoGP rider.

I am retired from the 200bhp track bikes and there is one bike that looks like it could be the best possible contender for the ultimate New England track day bike. The RC900. Too bad KTM is struggling. I think that RC could be the most fun possible on track with a streetbike.

Wow, your description sounds EPIC.

Never heard of the RC900, looks SICK.