I Need a Bike

[neuthunder]

i just got my first bike... 97 yzf 600r.... and yea it still has some serious kick to it. not that it will hold much here, but i've hit 140 no problem multiple times. and as a matter of growing there's always options of new exhaust, jetting, k&n filters, etc. etc. etc.... all of which i plan on doing next season

[odduc]

I need a buyer for my FZR1000, but with no experience it is way too much bike for you.

A 600cc standard of some sort would be good for you. Check out a Ducati Monster 620, SV650, FZ6, etc.

Good luck!

[cexley]

Here is my thoughts....

Get a bike with out fairings, or a bike
that already has scratched up fairings.
Parking lot dumps are all to common
and embarrassing. I suggest a cruiser
for your first bike, and learn on that.
They are wicked cheap, wear well, and are forgiving.
My first bike was a mid '80's Yamaha Virago 750
A couple of years on that, I learned I liked my feet
under me, and not in front of me. I sold it for what
I had in it, and went to 1994 FZR600, did my time
on that. Now I was ready for more and.....
I wanted dual exhaust and a single sided swing arm and 800cc
So, That said
You can skip all of our advise
And pick up a 2002 VFR800 for about $6500-$7000
But I am partial

[13]

All in all, you will never beat the badass sound of a v engine. I'd suggest the SV650S or a VFR. The interceptor had a really cool v-four sound that you won't usually find any where else. But an extremely loud sporting twin can really feel like it's shaking the world, it'll turn heads too. Don't go for the ZZZZIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGG!!! Go for the RRRROOOOAAAARRRRR!!!!!!
See? It's an easy choice!

[babo]

Originally posted by JeffL
I'm going to go out on a limb, and guess he hasnt even turned 16 yet, in which case, the last thing I'd suggest to you is buying a motorcycle of ANY kind. Get a car and learn what a jungle it is out there, and how to navigate the hundreds and thousands of morons that call themselves drivers, then decide from there if you want to move yourself from a fellow "driver" to a moving target in the road.

Yup.


If you are really bent on getting a bike, go for a used SV650 or an EX500. Dont invest in a new ike until you really know what kind of riding you really like.

What's with the user name????

[zachary6]

Hey since everyone else is beating you up I'm going to join in. My first bike was an XR200R no power but great on dirt roads, then for about three years I had an 82' KZ750LTD, pretty good top end but nice low and heavy and um not so good on dirt roads. The advantage to these bikes is that they taught me the physics of riding a motorcycle without being fast enough to kill myself. Oh also an MSF course and a couple books. Really we all like to ride motorcycles and would like you to be around long enough to enjoy it.
Oh yeah, gotta go with the sv650s, faster than most six hundreds if you know how to ride.

[LowSider]

I never intended to buy new. I always planned on getting a used one. I didnt ever want a beasty 1000+ either.


I have limited down to the following:

ZX6R
CBR
SV650S


I am leaning towards the ZX6R but the CBR isnt far behind. I am pretty sure the SV650S is out but am not completly sure.
What do you guys think?

I like the CBR except for the exhaust in the middle comming out from under the tail. I did find a few on ebay with it on the side like normal.
I like the ZX6R pretty much all around. Some times I like the straight front fairing and other times I don't.
The SV650S seems more tourig then street, which I don't like, and I don't like the gap between the engine and the fork.

What do you guys think?
Which do you prefer and which has more parts advalible?

[LuvDog]

They all have lots of parts available.

As for which one?

The ZX6R and CBR 600 are comparable.

The SV is in a different class.... out of the 3 it is by far the best beginner bike.

If you don't like it, then you don't like it... no biggie.

If it were me... I'd probably prefer the CBR. The ones with the undertail are newer than the ones with the "standard" side exhaust.

[FazerChic]

I know where you can get a sweet used Ninja 500...

Linky

I just couldn't resist.......

[OreoGaborio]

what year CBR ZX6r etc are you looking at? the ones i'd suggest are from the mid/late 90's to about 2002. I really wouldn't suggest anything newer than 2000. That's right about where the 600's were coming out with fuel injection instead of carbs & REALLY started gaining more power, as well as a much more twitchy "on/off" switch throttle which makes it really tough to learn low speed parking lot kinda maneuvering.

Like I said before, I have a 2000 zx6r (remained pretty much the same till 2002) and although it's not a bad bike to learn on, there were definitely times that i regreted starting on such a bike, cuz there ARE easier bikes to learn on that look/sound just as good.

If you end up goin for a bike like mine though, you WILL like the price as you can probably pick up a clean example for around 4 grand.

[SEVENSGT]

If you're looking to be able to handle streets well, and go fast my money is on the SV650s not the TL in SV clothing....



my SV kept up and passed my buddies downcity riding, backroads through westport I was always in the lead, the only time I had a problem with it was on the slabs, hayabusa and tls's kicked my ass. The older SV650S '01-'02 are a goddamn blast, I would piss off my buds cause I would take off on ocean drive in Newport, ri, then downtown prov I would be almost draggin a knee round prov place mall, not going fast but pushing the bike to see how far I could go. I have always been a twin fan though, and really to ride and love the SV you need some of it in your blood. Alot of people are prevy to I4's higher rpm's more power in the same size. So the final is left to you but if my vote counted I would get an 02 SVS but that's my big 240lbs ass talking...........

[highsider]

Originally posted by DrunkDriver
Let me try you, JeffL.
24/25 years old, been riding a week and you think you are tough shit?

Big Sissy, how have you been?? I have missed you so very much...

SVs and EXs are for pussies. Buy an R1 (I have one I'll happily sell you ), and come to a track day. It'll be super sweet.

[chr|s sedition]

i've posted this a zillion times on other sites. i think this the 1st time i've posted it on NESR.

my standard response,
-chr|s sedition

___________
One of the most common questions new sport bike riders have is, “What kind of sport bike should I get?” This question is asked so often that I have created a standardized response to it. Please keep in mind that these are the views and opinions of one person (albeit countless other also hold them). I would encourage both new and veteran riders to give me feedback as to how this information could be conveyed in a more concise, clear, and illuminating manner. With that said, on we go…
Getting ANY modern 600cc sport bike for a first ride is a bad idea (far, far, far worse is a 1000cc bike for a first ride.) In fact, it may be nothing more than an expensive form of suicide. Here are a few reasons why.
1. Knowledge of Subject Matter
When anyone starts something new they find themselves at the most basic point of the “beginner’s mind”. This is to say that they are at the very start of the learning curve. They are not even aware of what it is that they don't know. A personal example of this is when I began Shotokan Karate. The first day of class I had no idea what an “inside-block” was, let alone how to do it with correct form, power, and consistency. After some time, and a lot of practice, I could only then realize how bad my form really was. Then, and only then, was I able to begin the process of improving it. I had to become knowledgeable that inside-blocks even existed before I was aware that I couldn’t do them correctly. It takes knowledge OF something in order to understand how that something works, functions, performs, etc. Now lets return to the world of motorcycles. A beginner has NO motorcycle experience. They are not even aware of the power, mistakes, handling, shifting, turning dynamics etc. of any bike, let alone a high performance sport bike. Not only do they lack the SKILL of how to ride a motorcycle, they also lack the knowledge of WHAT skills they need to learn. Acquiring those skills comes only with experience and learning from your mistakes. As one moves through the learning curve they begin to amass new information…they also make mistakes. A ton of them.
2. The Learning Curve
While learning to do something, you make mistakes. Without mistakes the learning process is impossible. A mistake on a sport bike can be fatal. The thing new riders need to learn above anything else is smooth throttle control, proper speed, and how to lean going into turns. A 600cc bike can reach 60mph in about 3 to 5 seconds. A simple beginners mishap with that much power and torque can cost you your life (or a few limbs) before you even knew what happened. Grab a handful of throttle going into a turn and you may end up crossing that little yellow line on the road into on-coming traffic…**shudder**. Bikes that are more forgiving of mistakes are far safer (not to mention, more fun) to learn on.
Ask yourself this question; in which manner would you rather learn to walk on tightropes A) with a 4x4 board that is 2 feet off the ground B) with a wire that is 20 feet off the ground? Most sensible people would choose “A”. The reason why is obvious. Unfortunately safety concerns with a first motorcycle aren’t as apparent as they are in the example above. However, the wrong choice of what equipment to learn on can be just as deadly, regardless of how safe, careful, and level-headed you intend to be.
3. “But I will be safe, responsible, and level-headed while learning".
Sorry, but this line of reasoning doesn’t cut it. To be safe you also need SKILL (throttle control, speed, leaning, etc). Skill comes ONLY with experience. To gain experience you must ride in real traffic, with real cars, and real dangers. Before that experience is developed, you are best suited with a bike that won’t severely punish you for minor mistakes. A cutting edge race bike is not one of these bikes.
Imagine someone saying, "I want to learn to juggle, but I’m going to start by learning with chainsaws. But don’t worry. I intend go slow, be careful, stay level-headed, and respect the power of the chainsaws while I’m learning". Like the tightrope example above, the proper route here isn’t hard to see. Be “careful” all you want, go as “slow” as you want, be as “cautious” as you want, be as “respectful” as you want…your still juggling chainsaws! The “level-headed” thing to do in this situation is NOT start with chainsaws. Without a foundation in place of HOW to juggle there is only a small level of safety you can aspire towards. Plain and simple, it’s just better to learn juggling with tennis balls than it with chainsaws. The same holds true for learning to ride a motorcycle. Start with a solid foundation in the basics, and then move up. Many people say that “maturity” will help you be safe with motorcycles. They are correct. However, maturity has NOTHING to do with riding a motorcycle (that is where skill takes over). Maturity is what you SHOULD use when deciding what kind of bike to buy.
4. “I Don’t Want A Bike I’ll Outgrow” Please. Did your Momma put you in size 9 shoes at age 2? Get with the program. It is far better to maximize the performance of a smaller motorcycle and get “bored" with it than it is to mess-up your really fast bike (not mention messing yourself up) and not being able to ride at all. Power is nothing without control.
5. “I don’t want to waste money on a bike I’ll only have for a short period of time” (i.e. cost) Smaller, used bikes have and retain good resale value. This is because other sane people will want them as learner bikes. You’ll prolly be able to sell a used learner bike for as much as you paid for it. If you can't afford to upgrade in a year or two, then you definitely can't afford to wreck the bike your dreaming about. Most new riders drop bikes going under 20MPH, when the bike is at its most unstable periods. If you drop your brand new bike, fresh off the showroom floor, while your learning (and you will), you've just broken a directional, perhaps a brake or clutch lever, cracked / scrapped the fairings ($300.00 each to replace), messed-up the engine casing, messed-up the bar ends, etc. It's better and cheaper to drop a crappy bike that you don’t care about than one you just spent $8,500 on. Fortunately, most of these types of accidents do not result in serious physical injury. It’s usually just a big dent in your pride and…

6. EGO. Worried about looking like chump on a smaller bike? Well, your gonna look like the biggest idiot ever on your brand new, but messed-up, 2005 bike after you’ve dropped it a few times. You’ll also look really dumb with a badass race bike that you stall 15 times at a red light before you can get into gear. Or even better, how about a nice 2005 R6 that you can’t ride more than 15mph around a turn because you don’t know how to counter-steer correctly? Yeah, your gonna be really cool with that bike, huh? Any real rider would give you props for going about learning to ride the *correct* way (i.e. on a learner bike). If you’re stressed about impressing someone with a “cool” bike, or embarrassed about being on smaller bike, then your not “mature enough” to handle the responsibility of ANY motorcycle. Try a bicycle. After you've grow-up (“matured”), revisit the idea of something with an engine.

7. "Don’t ask advice if you don't want to hear the answers".
A common pattern:
1. “Dick” asks for advice on a 1st bike (Dick wants to hear certain answers)
2. Experienced rider’s advice Dick against a 600cc bike for a first ride (This is not what Dick wanted to hear).
3. Dick says and thinks, "Others mess up while learning, but that wont happen to me" (As if Dick is some how invincible, holds superpowers, never makes mistakes, has a ‘level head’, or for some reason has a skill set that exceeds the majority of the world, etc).
4. Experienced riders explain why a ‘level head’ isn’t enough. You also need SKILL, which can ONLY be gained via experience. (Dick, for some reason, thinks he has innate motorcycle skills)
5. Dick makes up excuses as to why he is “mature” enough to handle a 600cc bike”. (Skill drives motorcycles, not maturity)
6. Dick, as a total newbie with no knowledge about motorcycles, totally disregards all the advice he asked for in the first place. (Which brings us right back to the VERY FIRST point I made about “knowledge of subject matter”).
7. Dick goes out and buys a R6, CBR, GSX, 6R, etc (Dick is scared of the power. Being scared of your bike is the LAST thing you want. Dick gets turned-off to motorcycles, because of fear, and never gets to really experience all the fun that they truly can be. Or worse, Dick gets in a serious accident. Dick was actually never really looking for serious advice anyway. What he was really seeking was validation and approval of a choice he was about to make or had already consciously made. When he received real advice instead of validation he became defensive about his ability to handle a modern sport bike for a new ride. Validation of a poor decision isn’t going to replace scratched bodywork on your bike. It isn’t going put broken bones back together. It isn’t going graft shredded skin back onto your body. It isn’t going to teach you to ride a motorcycle the correct way. However, solid advice from experienced riders (when heeded) can help to avoid some of these problems)
I’m not trying to be harsh. I’m being real. Look all over the net. You’ll see veteran after veteran telling new riders NOT to get a 600cc bike for a first ride. You’ll even see pros saying to start small. Why? Because we hate new riders? Because we don't want others to have cool bikes? Because we want to smash your dreams? Nothing could be further from the truth. The more riders the better (assuming there not squids)! The reason people like me and countless others spend so much time trying to dissuade new riders from 600cc bikes is because we actually care about you. We don't want to see people get hurt. We don't want to see more people die in senseless accidents that could have been totally avoided with a little logic and patients. We want the “sport” to grow in a safe, healthy, and sane way. We WANT you to be around to ride that R6, CBR600RR, GSX-1000, Habayasu, etc that you desire so badly. However, we just want you to be able to ride it in a safe manner that isn’t going to be a threat to yourself or others. A side note, you may see people on the net and elsewhere saying “600cc bike are OK to start with”. Look a bit deeper when you see this. The vast majority of people making these statements are new riders themselves. If you follow their advice you’ve entered into a situation of the blind leading the blind. This is not something you want to do with motorcycles. You may also hear bike dealers saying that a 600cc is a good starter bike. They are trying to make money off you. Don’t listen.
8. HELP IS ON THE WAY!!!
Speaking of help, this is a great time to plug the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) course. The MSF course is an AMAZING learning opportunity for new riders. The courses are offered all over the USA. A link for their web site is listed at the bottom of this post (or do a Goggle search and check you local RMV web page.). The MSF course assumes no prior knowledge of motorcycles and teaches the basics of how to ride a bike with out killing yourself (and NO, just because you passed the MSF course it dose NOT mean your ready for an R6, GSX, CBR, etc). They provide motorcycles and helmets for the course. It is by far THE BEST way to start your life-long relationship with motorcycles. In some areas if you pass the course your motorcycle license will then be directly mailed to you. This means that you DON’T HAVE TO GO TO THE RMV, AT ALL!!!). That alone should be enough reason to take the course. Also, in some states you will get a discount on your insurance after you’ve taken the course. But wait, there is more! Some manufactures (Honda, Yamaha, etc) offer rebates if you take the course and then buy one of their bikes. Check their web sites / local dealers for details. I can’t plug the MSF course enough. It the best deal going for new riders. Period.
By the way, the short answer to the question, “What should I get for a first bike?” is as follows;
1. First choice, a used bike that is 500cc or under. A new 500cc bike is good, but it would suck if you dropped it. Plus, it will depreciate in value the second you drive off the dealers parking lot…not good when you want to resell it for that brand new R6, GSX600, CBR600, etc.
2. Any used OLDER 600cc sport bike (like 1980’s, early 1990’s).
3. Go here http://www.clarity.net/adam/buying-bike.html for the most compressive guide on “how to buy a used bike” that has ever been written.
Good “sport” type bikes for a first ride are as follows:
Honda: early 1990's Honda F2, F3, F4, 599
Kawasaki: Ninja 250cc, Ninja 500cc, early 1990’s ZX-6E or ZZR600.
Suzuki: GS500E, early 1990’s Katana 600cc, SV650*, SV650s*
Yamaha: early 1990’s Yamaha YZF600R*

*Suzuki’s SV650 and Yamaha’s YZF-600R can be quite a handful for a new rider, but they can also make great bikes.
4. Any other used “standard” style motorcycle.
Also, a GREAT book to check out is “The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Motorcycles, 3rd edition”. The 3rd edition was just published in summer of 2005, so it may not be on the shelves yet. The book coves everything from picking out a first bike, simple repair, anatomy of an engine, how to buy a used bike, riding gear, tips for surviving on the road, racing, etc. You can check this book out almost any major bookstore, www.amazon.com, or www.idiotsguides.com MY ADAVICE FOR ANYONE LOOKING TO GET INTO MOTORCYCLES WOULD BE TO BUY THIS BOOK AND READ IT COVER TO COVER ABOUT 2 OR 3 TIMES. AFTER YOU HAVE DONE THAT, THEN TAKE THE MSF COURSE. You’ll go into the course with some great information that will greatly enrich and hasten your learning experience. It will also give you a HUGE advantage on the written test at the conclusion of the MSF course. Trust me on this one, buy the book. At the very least, go hang out at Barnes & Nobel for an afternoon and read as much of the book as you can until they kick you out of the store.
I hope this information was helpful, and feel free to email me with any questions. Oh! I haven’t even mentioned riding gear. Get it. Wear it. People who wear tank tops, flip-flops, and shorts while riding don’t look so cool when it comes time for a skin-graft (or when a bee goes up their shorts). Dress for the crash, not the ride.

A number of people have emailed me recently and asked the following question, “I have ridden a friends street bike a few times, and grew up riding off-road bikes. With this history, would I be OK on a modern 600cc bike?”. The answer is “No”. Off-road and street riding are totally different worlds. Granted, someone with off-road history knows things like shift patterns, how to use a clutch, etc but the power, weight, and handling of street bikes is a different ball game altogether.

-chr|s sedition
Boston, MA
chris.sedition@gmail.com
www.msf-usa.org (web site for the Motorcycle Safety Foundation)
Contributors to Content
“Drewser600” / Sportrider
“Z_Fanatic” / sbw.sportbikes
“Ancosta” / NESR
“Tevo” / Sportrider
Thanks guys!

[SVRACER01]

OK! im too lazy to read ALL the posts but i think i get the jist. you want a bike. you want something cool. you want something that will grow WITH you, not get boring as you outgrow it. right? i see alot of newbies going out and buying big fast bikes as their first bike. its kinda aggravating for 2 reasons. 1: they are not smart enough to realize that 130+ HP is alot when its not in a 3000lb car. and you can get yourself into alot of trouble VERY quickly. 2: i usually want what they just bought but i dont have the money for it so im just jealous
Seriously though, older ZX6s CBRs will last just as long as any new bike will they are just down on power a little. not really a big deal, especially when you really have no idea what you want from a bike since youve never had one. i thought i wanted a ZX6RR. but after riding one on the street there is no way i would buy one unless i was racing it. too f'n uncomforatable. also older bikes are cheaper to maintain. finding parts for WHEN you lay it down will be alot cheaper than a limited edition R1.
i might be biased..........but a SV is an AWESOME bike. they crash well, they are cheap, sound great (nothing sounds like a V-twin at 9,900 RPM) i would suggest a first generation one WITHOUT fuel injection simply beacause its easier to get power out of. for the same money that you are willing to spend on some race rep bike you could have a 100+ HP SV! also look at insurance. SVs are NOT considered sportbikes.............$25 a month full coverage for mine. shop smart

[chr|s sedition]

Originally posted by SVRACER01
finding parts for WHEN you lay it down will be alot cheaper than a limited edition R1.

*COUGH*

owning a limited ed R1 isn't nearly as much fun as crashing one,
-sedition

[bara954]

hey dd, i just got a chance to get up to speed on this post. you have obviously decided to get a bike, and i personnaly think you should go for it. just take your time getting to know the bike. as oreo said, your bike will be more capable than you will. defintely buy and ride with gear, i would be dead if it wasnt for gear. out of the bikes youve narrowed it down to i would go with a cbr. i agree a new one isnt the way to go, because your probably going to drop it (everyone does) and than its going to be very expensive to fix. go for an f4 or maybe f4i (i hate the combined passenger /driver seat on the f4, but they fixed it on the f4i.) not only will the bike be cheaper, but replacement parts are plentiful on ebay. i dont like the sv's looks, and i think prior to '02 kawi's were junk, but thats my personal opinion. good luck. let us know what you do. and be careful

[LowSider]

OreoGaborio, what do you think about your ZX6R? Is it comfortable?


What is the difference between the CBR 600rr and the F4i?
I hate the double seat too.


I am leaning towards the CBR now. I like the pointier front on it. I think I am getting a little critical though.

I havnt found a definitve price range for each year. I guess it is going to be something around a '02-'04.

[jjs777]

first bike for me a 600 when I was 23

was used to speed with near 500hp street legal cars (circa 94)

with that said I really think I'd be 6 feet under if I had a bike any sooner than age 23. Not that I couldn't handle the bike.

It was my racer mentality (street racing) that was harder to control. I was dumb.

My suggestion is to wait a few years. Drive in a cage. I know it sucks.

Perhaps you have more self control with speed than I did. Trouble is at your age you might not know what kind of person you are yet. Driving a car for a few years might tell you who you are and what kind of driver your gonna be.

oh...all my hs buddies that got bikes at 16-17 crashed bad back in the day - all of 'em (even the ones that thought they were bada$$'s) - luckily they lived....all of them stopped riding as I recall

[bara954]

this would be a great first bike, it looks good, is cheap, comes with everything you need, and it isnt going to be a tragedy when you drop it. i'd offer him 3g's

http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/...threadid=17625

[LowSider]

Yeah, I just saw that.

No matter what it is, I am going to be pissed if I drop it.
I think I have my heart set on a CBR right now. Unless there are any other bikes I have not considered yet.

[bara954]

yeah those 600rr's are pretty sweet. plus they make an awesome d&d twin underseat exhaust.

http://www.sprengineering.com/images/dd.jpg


look into the f4i too though. i dont know the performance differences. i would say to the average rider they would be minimal.

[benVFR]

Get something naked. If you are really 15 you ARE going to dump it.

Make sure you get something cheap enough you can buy it outright, cause you ARE going to dump it.

If you buy it outright you can carry reduced insurance coverage.

You've got to keep in mind how much extra you are going to spend to get started on this thing.

- Buy the bike

- Pay excise tax to good old MA. Somewhere in the range of $50-100 depending on what bike you buy.

- $250-300 for MSF beginner course. I forget the exact price but you need to take that class, if they won't accept you due to your age, you need to wait.

- Budget another $200-300 for miscelaneous registry fees, etc..

- Buy the gear (Spend $500-1000 for quality FULL gear, cause you ARE going to crash test that gear.)

- Buy the insurance. Full coverage for you on a new 600 is probably going to be like $2000-3000/yr!

- Budget your insurance deductible for when you crash if you are gong to have a loan. If you have a $500 deductible make sure you have that in the bank for when you crash. (I assume a 15 year old is not capable of rebuilding the bike when he crashes it.) If you are under the impression you are going to repair it yourself you might want to budget $1000-2000 for repairs in your first couple years unless you don't want the bike to look like sh*t.

- Remember if you have a loan you will have to carry full insurance, and will get stuck letting a shop repair the bike in full when you crash it.

- So if you have $8000 to spend you should maybe look for a $3000-4000 bike to leave yourself room for all the extra expenses.

- Even routine maintenance can get expensive fast. If you have to get new tires it could cost between $300 to $400. If you have to let a dealership or mechanic work on the bike for you it is easy to drop $200 on routine maintenance. These things are WAY more expensive to maintain then the sensible Civic or Corrolla you should be buying to learn to drive.

If you think you can do this there are 2 ways you've got the money:

a) Mommy and Daddy are buying you a bike so you've got plenty of money, even if you trash your bike they will bail you out.

b) You have worked hard to save up the money. If you spend it all right away and dump the bike you won't be able to ride for quite a while until you save up enough money to get started again.

If b) is the case again make sure to leave yourself plenty of money in the bank to cover the unexpected, this hobby is way more expensive then the cost of the bike.

Just keep that thought in the back of your head, whether or not you are responsible or not, this is going to cost more then you think.

[Zolden]

Go with an F4i, or even the f4/f3 (you can find still sweet looking f3's in the 3grand area) if you can deal with that single seat business. I've been reading up for a long time now, and I have my heart set on a '01 silver or red and black f4i. They are forgiving starter bikes for those with some experience.

The main difference I've heard between the RR and f4i's are that the RR can be considered almost a straight track model. They are mildly more powerful with a quicker throttle response, and uncomfortable as all hell from what I hear. F4i's are supposed to be more forgiving and toned down a slight bit.

Take everything I say with a grain of salt though, I can only say what I hear from others experiences. But that's the bike I'm looking to buy...

[ChrisNoF4i]

Originally posted by Zolden
I've been reading up for a long time now, and I have my heart set on a '01 silver or red and black f4i. They are forgiving starter bikes for those with some experience.

I don't give a shit about this DrunkDriver character, so I will focus my attention towards you. The '01 F4i with a stock seat is NOT very comfortable at all. If you're looking for comfort, you won't find it there. But it IS a great fucking bike with power and style. I might even pick myself up one during the offseason.

[LowSider]

What about the RR, you have any experience with it?