Buell All Done

[Kitt]

LOL 134HP... right.

So let's take your GSXR... you race an '06 right? From Sportrider, actual measurements. vs. my (2 year newer) 848.


motorcycle peak hp peak torque wet weight dry weight

GSX-R600 ('06) 109.3 @ 13,500 44.1 @ 11,750 438 411

848 ('08) 116.5 @ 10,250 61.7 @ 8250 435 410


Definitely a torque advantage but a whopping 7 HP? You get a lot more gains from a typical race setup on a 600 than you'll see on an 848 (full pipe, power commander, etc.) in both weight savings and power gains.

Either way, it further emphasizes the ridiculousness of having an 1125cc twin battling 600's. C'mon.

I just pulled the #'s... 109 is optimistic for a stock gsxr... but with exhaust/pc then sure, 110 is a strong motor.

guess the power was bhp...

this guy is throwing 121-122 on the dyno with cans.
http://www.fireblades.org/forums/duc...ati-848-a.html

but to match power, and have double the torque... still not equal.

what were the 749's good for?

[Kitt]

I wish my 848 made 134 HP. And 100 hp out of an I4? They were making more than that in the late '90's.

"Despite being at the back of the pack in terms of horsepower and torque on the dyno, it was praised by many for having ample real-world racetrack power. Yamaha claims to have tuned the bike for more mid-range and unfortunately somewhere in the process it lost some peak power, going from the highest horsepower Japanese bike of the bunch last year to the second-lowest this time around, producing only 100.00 hp @ 14,100rpm for 2009. But you would never guess that was the case after top-speed test data was revealed."

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/268/28...omparison.aspx

[scottieducati]

Dude, the #'s I took were from SportRider. Stock bikes, SAME DYNO. Keep tossing random #'s from god knows who's crappy dyno out, it's irrelevant. I'm pretty sure I've seen guys puttin down 120+ on 600's on the interwebz. Apparently the 600's have gone DOWN in HP from '06, largely due to emissions regulations... not really applicable to race bikes.

[DesmoTull]

what were the 749's good for?

749R ('04) 115.7 @ 10,500. 59.6 @ 8500

Again, Motorcyclist.com

[Kitt]

Dude, the #'s I took were from SportRider. Stock bikes, SAME DYNO. Keep tossing random #'s from god knows who's crappy dyno out, it's irrelevant. I'm pretty sure I've seen guys puttin down 120+ on 600's on the interwebz. Apparently the 600's have gone DOWN in HP from '06, largely due to emissions regulations... not really applicable to race bikes.

links?

I couldn't find one source for all the bikes.

[scottieducati]

My #'s were from Sportrider, who didn't test a 749 apprently.

749R ('04) 115.7 @ 10,500. 59.6 @ 8500

Again, Motorcyclist.com

[scottieducati]

Since it's probably a big ask to go to sportrider.com and click around...

Ducati Historical Data

Suzuki Historical Data

They've got everything but 749's. Notice all the Jap 600's had big drop offs in peak power after '06, which I can only presume is from stricter emissions regs that are done away with either a remap / new pipe / whatever. A '97 GSXR600 put down 97HP!!

[Kitt]

749R ('04) 115.7 @ 10,500. 59.6 @ 8500

Again, Motorcyclist.com

That's what I thought... which was higher than for 2004 600's, but due to ridability of the 600's, thought it was pretty good match-up.

as for scott, ur a twin duc guy - i don't plan on swaying your opinion... but nomatter the source, the #'s don't match... even if you call hp equivalent (which it's not).

Power difference never meant anything to me, racing for my own times, I had plenty of work to do on my abilities (and still do)... but as I get closer to riding the bike to it's max, the power/torque differentials show up around the track more.

[scottieducati]

Which is sort of my point ironically, 600 v. 675 v. 850 twin... they're all pretty much equal. Take your, or my riding out of the book and I recall ScottyG and E.Wood having some good battles (600 vs. 848) last year (E.Wood rides a 1098 this year), and lap times are pretty similar.

Granted that's a bad case example, as 600's are as fast or faster than 1000's at NHMS, but the point remains this conversation started by discussing the Buell, a nearly 1200cc motor against 600cc motors, which is completely ridiculous.

In any national, or top-level racing series, you'll see all the bikes mentioned evenly matched in the MW classes (except the 1125), and the SBK classes. There's a reason the rules are the way they are, only we here in the US need a special hand out for the 1125??? That was my only point.

That's what I thought... which was higher than for 2004 600's, but due to ridability of the 600's, thought it was pretty good match-up.

as for scott, ur a twin duc guy - i don't plan on swaying your opinion... but nomatter the source, the #'s don't match... even if you call hp equivalent (which it's not).

Power difference never meant anything to me, racing for my own times, I had plenty of work to do on my abilities (and still do)... but as I get closer to riding the bike to it's max, the power/torque differentials show up around the track more.

[KawiSmurf]

Seriously guys, this whole issue's been discussed ad nauseum over the whole summer by various moto journalists.

These links should give you all the hard data and hp numbers you wanna drool over, and all the Motorcycle USA numbers are from one source, so they're easily comparable.

Motorcycle Daily:
AMA Daytona Sportbike: MD Style (1125R vs. R6 vs. ZX-6R)


Motorcycle USA:
2009 Daytona Sportbike Comparison (1125R vs. RSV1000R vs. ZX-6R)

2009 Supersport Shootout VII (Compares the 848 to the rest of the 600s)

2006 Supersport Shootout IV Specs (Gives numbers/data for Ducati 749S vs. the 600s)

[FAST GSXR750]

Too bad for Buell, H-D sucks. Hey now that Penske's not buying Saturn maybe E B can get him to swing some millions into an American bike company. That would be kick ass.

[SVRACER01]

... unless Harley won't allow it? You would think Harley would rather sell the company than just shut it down?

HD is known to cut off its nose to spite its face

[dj 96yzf750]

i always wanted a buell

[caddydaddy]

i always wanted a buell

Well, go get one!

[dj 96yzf750]

cant afford another bike,any1 like to trade

[Evil_Weasel]

FUCK!!!

what the hell...i loved buell. my second bike was a buell. i raced a buell.

i will never buy wear or display any HD product again in my life . fuck you HD...no one under 50 wants your shit...hell more and more plus 50s are buying better bikes.

so again fuck you HD may you flounder and fail with your own shit products.

[Evil_Weasel]

anybody want to trade my old 96 bandit 600s s for thier shitty old buell??

[ff36buell]

Evil... Manch has a bunch of '08s left that I bet they would GIVE away at this point.

[Evil_Weasel]

just signed the lease on a new place so funds are low, otherwise tempting...plus i like the older quirkey tube frame bikes.

origional 1990sl S1...anyone? please?

[Mustang]

Sucks

[M.J.B.]

That sucks i liked buells, just goes to show you how fucked this country is

[brady]

Which is sort of my point ironically, 600 v. 675 v. 850 twin...[...]the Buell, a nearly 1200cc motor against 600cc motors, which is completely ridiculous.

My question i guess is whats does this do to DMG. i mean after all this hoopla and cutting corners for buell to run in SS and SB, pissing off the other manufactures for basically one year and now buell is done. how do they repair their differences with kawi/yamaha/suz/honda..if they can

Should be easy for DMG to figure this one out:

1. add a top rung class for 600's only: it will make the Big 4 happy and makes a lot more sense for their marketing $ with the current mindset of most US "entry level" sportbike buyers.
2. admit that Daytona Sportbike is the old Formula Extreme class, let anyone race whatever they want knowing that ongoing and bike-specific rule tweaks will be used to ensure close competition.

[brady]

Too bad for Buell, H-D sucks. Hey now that Penske's not buying Saturn maybe E B can get him to swing some millions into an American bike company. That would be kick ass.

Or even better Dan Gurney, who is more of a motorcycle guy and has already dabbled in his own small volume bike project.

Penske is probably too much of a hard-core businessman to go for it.

[xbootlickx]

Buell and MV should just start their own thing after waiting a season out. Bikes just wont move right now, but when they do Buell has the championship under their belt.

[ff36buell]

Just reading the Buell forums over the last 24hrs has proven one thing to me. I have owned a Ford Mustang (huge community), Jeep Cherokee (even bigger community), but the Buell owners accross the country really are a tight knit group.... The community has been hurt, and they, we, are all sticking together it seems. I might go pick up another R in the next coming weeks.

Nick