cold starts

["Dangerous" Dan K]

could be the battery, it only has like 3000 miles so its probably the original. 8 years will do it.

8 years... I'm guessing battery for sure. That bike is way too clean to think anything else if the battery is 8 years old.

[BluGixxer]

Randy's right on this one. I've seen the insides of engines that sit all winter, or are started periodically by the owner thinking they're helping. You end up loading the oil up with moisture which then starts eating away at any ferrous metal in the engine. Double screw yourself by putting it away with old oil and the acid action will start working on non ferrous metals too.

Unless you're going to really load that bike up enough to get all the oil up above 200 degrees and hold it there for a bit, leave it alone and let it sit all winter. It'll be FAR happier for it.

Plus 1 on the warm up issue,
condensation is a sneaky killer,
just better off letting it sit if you can't warm it up all the way,
Keep in mind that the water (condensation ) reacts with the sulfer in petroluim products, this means gas also, so carbs are at risk also, along with the tank , the acid might not be abundant or a strong concentration all the time, but why help it by creating a hot cold atmosphere for condensation to take place.
The acid corodes aluminum and its alloys pretty easy, not only does it "eat away " material , but it also can grow (swell) like A mold , get little hard cruncheis that break off and float down stream and clog small passages in the fuel system or in an oil passages. Of course this is worst case senario , but it happens a little at a time, might not notice all at once , but season after season your bike slowly losses a little something more than just normal wear .
I figured I would try to throw a little educational thing out there for people wo didn't know, not to offend or change anyones winter rituals , because we all kn.ow the absolute worst thing for any piece of machinary is to let it sit .

[markbvt]

There's only one solution here. Stud your tires and ride through the winter.

--mark

[ChicknStripEatr]

My money's on the battery.

When it's that cold it needs every last ounce of cold cranking amperage it can muster. My kawi is the same way, needs a lil help from a charger before firing when it's that cold. Throw the charger on for 5 mins it'll run like a champ.

My bike will seem to crank for an eternity with what seems like enough juice but won't fire. Just a sign of a weak battery.

[keeena]

another easy test would be to try jumping the bike from a car battery with the car off. if it starts up no problem then replace the battery.

[NeverlosT]

My bike was on a battery tender and the battery still wouldnt do it, was the original battery so replaced it. Im agreeing with the others and betting that it is your battery.

Interesting points here about not starting it up for 2 minutes now and then over the winter just to hear it run, I never thought too much about condensation etc. in the fluids and acidification.

So we have heard so far that it is ok and not ok to use a car battery to jump the bike. Isnt 12 volts 12 volts? Am I missing something there? I mean, the car battery is just bigger (size) with a larger amperage capacity likely right? Please educate me because it is something I have been thinking about.

[gregp]

I am fairly certain that you can use a car battery, as long as the car *is not running* when you do this.

[BluGixxer]

Yes , last time I looked 12 volts is the same , its the old wives tale , some older bikes , and I mean older have a 6 volt sytem or even a 12 volt positive ground system, most likley we will never run into this.
But , th biggest issue is people don't know the proper. And safe way to jumpstart todays delicate machines.
A currant spike can ruin the electronic parts of your charging system. So a simple jump on a weak battery is ok , keep in mind , the bikes charging system is NOT meant to charge a dead or faulty battery. That's where people go wrong , rule of thumb, battery 75% charged is ok for jump, anything more , your just working it harder than designed. Same for the average autos, not to include speacial heavyduty aplication on work trucks.
So if your battery is just low from sitting or leaving the lights on, a simple jump is ok when done proprely . Which is donner car off , connect cables pos on first , then neg, if need be then you can start donner car ,don't start it if you don't need to , that will eliminate any possibilties of currant spike and shorting out the alt on car. Let cables on bike for a minute or so and start bike. Take cables off bike removing NEG first, as far as I know it doesn't matter what vehicle comes off first,
And as far as a car baterry and the size of CCA vrs the bikes , it really only takes what it needs ,so that wouldn't make a difference

[butcher bergs]

Might wanna use a healthy spray of starting fluid while you're at it.



An automotive battery is too much. Plain and simple. 12vdc is 12vdc until too many amps are sent to the starter and it overheats and incinerates the brushes.

But, there's no sense in offering helpful advice since everyone already seems to have the answer.

[drop]

Might wanna use a healthy spray of starting fluid while you're at it.



An automotive battery is too much. Plain and simple. 12vdc is 12vdc until too many amps are sent to the starter and it overheats and incinerates the brushes.

But, there's no sense in offering helpful advice since everyone already seems to have the answer.

that's absolutely not the way additional reserve capacity works in a 12v battery. not even a little bit.

[RandyO]

Might wanna use a healthy spray of starting fluid while you're at it.



An automotive battery is too much. Plain and simple. 12vdc is 12vdc until too many amps are sent to the starter and it overheats and incinerates the brushes.

But, there's no sense in offering helpful advice since everyone already seems to have the answer.

amps are not "sent" they are drawn, if the starter draws more than it should, its due to a short or some other problem the starter already has

the reason a car running 'might' blow the bikes charging system is due to voltage, most bikes chargng systems are regulated under 15 volts, a cars charging system puts out around 15.7

[butcher bergs]

that's absolutely not the way additional reserve capacity works in a 12v battery. not even a little bit.

Then I have a gross misunderstanding as to how a perfectly good starter blew out of my 400ex when I put a car battery to it many years ago.

It was good before I used an automotive battery then it was bad after I used an automotive battery.

[BluGixxer]

Then I have a gross misunderstanding as to how a perfectly good starter blew out of my 400ex when I put a car battery to it many years ago.

It was good before I used an automotive battery then it was bad after I used an automotive battery.

Not trying to bust B@lLs to much , but if everything was in perfect working order starter and selonoid and wires , what was wrong with the bike battery, sounds to me like the starter was bad to begin with and the selonoid stuck on, and maybe a bike batt wouldnt have enough reserve (CC) to melt or destroy anything where a car battery has enough to melt the lead post off the top, (I've done that ,scary)
But things like this only take what they need (Draw) if grounded. = short circut=hot-bad-melt~destroy=Kill

[butcher bergs]

Not trying to bust B@lLs to much , but if everything was in perfect working order starter and selonoid and wires , what was wrong with the bike battery, sounds to me like the starter was bad to begin with and the selonoid stuck on, and maybe a bike batt wouldnt have enough reserve (CC) to melt or destroy anything where a car battery has enough to melt the lead post off the top, (I've done that ,scary)
But things like this only take what they need (Draw) if grounded. = short circut=hot-bad-melt~destroy=Kill

This scenario is going back a few years so I couldn't say one way or the other what the root cause was. All I know is that the 400ex battery was dead so I jumped it with a car battery and *poof*, that was the last time the starter turned that engine over. Since that experience I have never used anything other than the correct battery, bump-starting or a trickle charge.

Hey, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I can handle that. Gotta understand that what I saw with that 'wheeler told me never to use a car battery for that purpose.

[NobodySpecific]

This scenario is going back a few years so I couldn't say one way or the other what the root cause was. All I know is that the 400ex battery was dead so I jumped it with a car battery and *poof*, that was the last time the starter turned that engine over. Since that experience I have never used anything other than the correct battery, bump-starting or a trickle charge.

Hey, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I can handle that. Gotta understand that what I saw with that 'wheeler told me never to use a car battery for that purpose.

I have to believe it was a coincidence, or a problem like was described. 12V is 12V (until you short it, then a higher capacity battery will be able to flow SIGNIFICANTLY more current through the short). With a normal load, you can't violate V=IR (or any of the related C and L equations), so it shouldn't ever cause a NEW problem.

Are you sure that ex used a 12V battery?

[R7]

Are you sure that ex used a 12V battery?

Yes, it was/is a 12v system on those quads. I had one for a year and had to replace the battery and starter within that first year...that was my second and last honda

[butcher bergs]

...had to replace the battery and starter within that first year...

That's rather interesting to read because at the time my starter fried I think mine was just about 2yrs old. I never looked further into what caused it but all these years I figured it was the car battery I used that caused the issue.

[Rosco61]

Your supposed to put em to sleep and leave them alone from what I understand. Condensation among other things can do bad things. I finally started mine last week in the 40's and It fired right up immediately. Also a C-14. gas stabilized and on a tender and new oil before storage.

[duganc1717]

Mike, the battery definitley could be suspect... When I bought the bike it had around 600 miles on it last spring but, the battery is still almost 8 year old...