How much riding experience before first trackday?

[butcher bergs]

Is there a requisite figure for experience or miles needed before attending a first trackday?

Curiosity has got me.

What does the NESR collective say about this?


Details:
Friend of mine just scooped a 599 Hornet and is doing the new-rider thing correctly......geared up, MSF, slow and easy, lots of questions, reading books, etc.

[CEO]

The first time I sat on a motorcycle in my life (my MSF course a year and a half ago) was exactly three months before I did my first track day.

I felt like I had ample general riding skills/knowledge to try out the track.

[The Snowman]

The first time I sat on a motorcycle in my life (my MSF course a year and a half ago) was exactly three months before I did my first track day.

I felt like I had ample general riding skills/knowledge to try out the track.

That explains a lot.

Actually, for a newer, rider you're doing extremely well on the track. Must be that young and fearless thing.

[seth399]

I think I've only done a few thousand real street miles. I just did penguin race school this fall and tried racing on the day after....was neat and I kinda got hooked right away just like many others have said.

*edit* I agree with above as well, I would feel like a goon kinda if I crashed on a track day not associated with racing.

[The Snowman]

It shouldn't be how many miles you put on, but how comfortable you feel on the bike.

If throwing your bike side to side with speed feels comfortable, then you're probably ready for the track.

[butcher bergs]

And since you brought this up, I will bring up my personal opinion about crashing...

Yes, we all know your position on crashing.

Good to know I'm a failing racer as are others...



I'm enjoying the feedback thus far. Keep it coming!

(29 looks and 5 responses? Come on lurkers...what say you?)

[The Crashing Tomato]

Ummm I have put hundreds of thousands of miles on the open road over the last 18 years and still was not prepared for someone else doing something stupid in front of me resulting in me doing something .... crashing, granted it was a race and not a trackday but stupid happens ....trackday race open road doesn't matter.

It's an individual thing ... the red / beginners group at every TD is SLOW and very instructor friendly ....if you had very little exposure to the essentials (body position, countersteering, weighting the pegs, smooth bar inputs, ....etc) of MC riding this could be your SAFER way to learn them ... ask questions about them .... figure stuff out.

Afterall you don't ask the 3 - 4 year old kid that just learned to run to participate in a marathon .... you let themm first run around the yard a few thousand hours before letting them run in the streets

[DucDave]

I recommend at least 100,000 miles and that you be at least 50 years old....

...or, as someone else said, you are comfortable at speed, leaned over, and have mastered all the controls including hard braking, shifting, etc. If you're dragging hard parts on the street that's a good sign too....

[The Crashing Tomato]

Dave do those hard parts that include the mufflers of the old mans Harley doing thirty around the neighborhood

[RyanNicholson]

my first green flag was 4 months after starting riding.

personally I think once you're comfortable with the controls and nature of riding, and you aren't a blithering idiot...a trackday is a great way to learn how to handle the bike without starting bad habits. Where else are you going to have good instruction on riding a little more smoothly with some speed? (not just a buddy passing on bad habits....in general, not directed at you bergs). Like some of said, the red group at most track days is extremely slow and newbie friendly, with a lot of instruction.

[DucDave]

Dave do those hard parts that include the mufflers of the old mans Harley doing thirty around the neighborhood

...yep...as long as you're over 50

[Mr Bread]

This is my third season riding. The 9/29-30 TTDs were my first track days. I wish I had gone to the track sooner.

[eboos]

The thing that got me in trouble when I did my first track day in 2006 wasn't that I was inexperienced, it was that I thought that I was experienced and then found myself way beyond my skill level. I wish I was disciplined enough to ride slow and focus on proper technique that day. It wasn't until a year later that I returned to the track after that.

Point being: had I been more receptive to instruction and only tried to ride smooth instead of trying to get my knee down and look good, I would have been OK that day and would have learned much faster.

[kbroderick]

I wish I had done one sooner, but that's because then I'd have been able to go back for more. I think I probably could've handled a dry track day at least a few weeks, if not a month, sooner, but I'm not so sure how I would have done a month earlier with the same conditions we saw on Thursday. I did feel that the C group was going awfully friggin' slow several times, though, and I felt comfortable during most of the last session (mixed B/C), except when two riders passed me right around the 4 board coming into turn 1 and then got on their brakes as they pulled in.

(The 10/2 LAPS day was my first track day; I took the MSF on Mother's Day weekend and bought my bike 5/21. I did put about 10k on the bike between then and the track day, though.)

[OreoGaborio]

That explains a lot.

Actually, for a newer, rider you're doing extremely well on the track. Must be that young and fearless thing.

I have a very similar history as Chris.... got my first bike in May & started riding on the track 3 months later in August and I did multiple events per year (Think i didn't miss a single TTD until I began racing) as well as over 10k miles per year on the street. If you only ride maybe 5k a year & do one or two track days a year it's gonna take longer for you to improve your skills.

Just like when I was an aviation major back in college, the guys that really threw themselves into it & were CONSTANTLY up in the airplane were the ones that had the steepest learning curves.




Now to answer the question, you certainly don't have to be a master at riding a bike before doing a track day. I think as long as you're comfortable w/ all NORMAL aspects of motorcycle control (braking, turning, shifting, etc.) and can ride comfortably at highway speeds then you're ready for a track day, especially one as beginner friendly as Tony's

[OreoGaborio]

The thing that got me in trouble when I did my first track day in 2006 wasn't that I was inexperienced, it was that I thought that I was experienced and then found myself way beyond my skill level. I wish I was disciplined enough to ride slow and focus on proper technique that day. It wasn't until a year later that I returned to the track after that.

Point being: had I been more receptive to instruction and only tried to ride smooth instead of trying to get my knee down and look good, I would have been OK that day and would have learned much faster.

Don't sweat it, that's a pretty common scenario. A lot of the time a rider's ego will get in the way of their ability to learn & the first track day can often be a humbling experience.

That's not an experience to be avoided though, I think it's good thing. Snaps you back to reality & hopefully makes for safer riders.

[The Crashing Tomato]

Just to add:

when I did the Penguin last year I was in a class with an architectual or engineering student from FLA that had never ridden a bike on the open road! he took the MSF course and then Penguin. Yes he crashed before noon. with humbled heart and proper teaching (forget who the instructor was) he was riding resectably in the afternoon. we all have a diff learning curve .....

[wingerdor]

I have not done a track day. But as a point of reference, the TCARC course offerred by Lee Parks specifies the following:

Q. I've only been riding a short time. Can I take the TCARC?

A. The TCARC is for experienced riders. Our minimum requirement is 5,000 miles of street riding and one year of experience.



In my opinion, this can vary greatly from rider to rider. In some ways. I'm sure that a track day is safer than my daily commute into Boston. But I do think that a certain quota of experience dealing with "surprises" on the street would help a rider on the track as well.

From my reading, it seems that many mishaps on the track happen as a result of a rider trying to control the bike too much with too little finesse, especially panic braking while leaned over.

The thinking behind our requirements are that students need a minimum competancy level to start playing with Trailbraking and body position. With a prerequisite like we have, I hope it makes people realize that it's not for the average newbie.

I am glad I had the skills from the ARC before I tackled the track. It helped me be able to focus on the track and not so much on my technique. To me this progression was like that I couldn't imagine street riding without taking the basic course. I felt it gave me an edge that I needed.

Of course, people differ greatly. Some take to riding like fish to water, while others struggle with the basics for a long time.

So I think the experience level for a first trackday is a personal decision, that hopefully the person can make as an informed consumer.

[Dieseldan]

I have been riding on the street since 2006 put on 1500 miles in 06 (sold bike)

then bought my 675 in 08 and put on 2,600 miles and counting.

I will be doing a TD next year, wont be the fastest guy out there but I cant wait!!!!!

[kamikaze]

Been riding moped sized bikes since 1997. No riding between 2006-2008. Got a bike in May and then on track on Aug 12....I think if one has done the MSF, you can be on track in first season....If you have someone who can teach you the advanced techniques, one reads or observes advanced riders, the learning is accelerated. If he will be riding a lot with you, I say bring him to track already!

However I wouldn't suggest them trying to put the knee down on the first day. Just concentrate on technique

[RyanNicholson]

Forget exactly who said it, but keep in mind that the track (especially in a trackday environment) is nothing more than a closed off loop of pavement with no cars, dirt, pot holes, curbs, cops, etc. The track itself is not a dangerous thing, obviously much safer than riding on the street. The only other factor is riding with other bikes on the course. In the slow group, its a matter of keeping your head on straight and listening to instructors on passing, flags, pit in, and pit out. Anybody that can handle that, I would think would be fine at a trackday.

[OreoGaborio]

Forget exactly who said it, but keep in mind that the track (especially in a trackday environment) is nothing more than a closed off loop of pavement with no cars, dirt, pot holes, curbs, cops, etc. The track itself is not a dangerous thing, obviously much safer than riding on the street. The only other factor is riding with other bikes on the course. In the slow group, its a matter of keeping your head on straight and listening to instructors on passing, flags, pit in, and pit out. Anybody that can handle that, I would think would be fine at a trackday.

Exactly. I tell people all the time, it's the same pavement, same bike, same person as when you're on the street. It's not a RACE track, it's a closed course with none of the distractions or hazzards that you find on the street.

[Ken C]

To quote the TTD website: "Enhance your riding skills in an environment free from the dangers and distractions present on public roads"

We've had all levels of riders at out track days. Come spectate, or better yet cornerwork, to see what it's all about.

[beet]

Lean Angle Performance School Home Page

[Pittenger5]

On the one hand I think a track day soon in a riding career can avoid some bad habits that can be picked up on the street, but you need to be able to control the motorcycle. Turn 3 is like NOTHING you'll experience on the street, you need to be able to turn the bike without panicking and just locking up. Thats gonna vary from person to person.