The fine art of turning ?

[SVRACER01]

sometimes i trail brake so much and so hard into 3 that i have to tell myself to knock it off

[Kham]

when exiting a corner the goal is 100% of the weight of the bike on the rear tire to maximize traction. When braking you want 100% of the weight on the front to maximize traction.

i know that. that's when everything end or begin but we"re talking in between and at apex. try getting 100 percent(that key broke) there.

[OreoGaborio]

Mid corner, at the apex, leaned over w/ all the weight on only one tire? That's called crashing.

[Kham]

that's what im saying. man... dont you understand english/

[rolker]

+1

This is great!

Yeah, thanks for starting this thread Akira and to all that are contributing. I'm going to read through it a few times to try to figure out what I was doing wrong in T3 today... Wish I would have seen this discussion yesterday! Oh well, I'll just have to go to another trackday I guess

[akira700]

Update after the track day.
Its all just words. Important words but translating
what you know into action is another story.

We've been talking about trail braking.
Well the slower roll off on the brake entering apex of
three was not something possible for me.
I tried it a bunch of times but its alot to swallow
all at one time. Maybe Rossi and other racers can
modulate the brake release, the roll on of the throttle
and the bike tip in all at the same time but I cannot.
I can do two things but not three.

I think though that what's important about what folks
have said here is the smooth application of controls.
Some control inputs even overlap like throttle and brake
(thrake). This takes practice. The other thing to remember
is smooth does necessarily mean slow.

I mean if you looked at Nicky Hayden riding his RCV. And you could see graphs of his brake and throttle application it would most likely be
fast inputs but not abrupt. Experienced riders can be fast and smooth.
But you get smooth first by doing it slow. And as I heard Jamie say
in the class room yesterday, once its in your muscle memory it may just be there to recall when you start going faster. If your really good you do it once and its ready to use. Look at Lewis Hamilton this year driving the F1 McClaren. I mean damn that guy goes to a track he's never driven before and after 2 laps he's clocking consistent record setting times. The guy is a precision machine.

I really respect that and wish I could learn to ride a motorcycle that way. But me like most mortals I'm just repeating stuff over and over and over the course of weeks, years till it sinks in. The key here is to not repeat bad habits as you will just have to unlearn them. That's what so good about all the experienced folks at Tony's Day, they can help point those out so you dont commit those things to muscle memory and have to waste time unlearning it.

[RyanNicholson]

well put man, thats probably the best explanation of executing advice.

more laps = more ability

its important to be willing to TRY things, a lot of people get scared or uncomfortable with the idea of changing their typical routine (in any sport really...but esp track riding)...but if you want to be faster, you have to change what you're doing now to get there. Its just key that you dont let your intentions exceed your abilities.

[akira700]

I know Pete and others have posted this one before.

But this is a good source of all kinds of ideas
for cornering skills.

Keith Code Forum
http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showforum=2

[Paul_E_D]

Just to confirm, trail braking is most commonly done with the front brake. It's not a re-application of the brake while leaned over, it's just leaning the bike before fully releasing the front brake.

The bike I'm riding these days (#95) is set up so that I HAVE to trail brake to get it to turn easily. The advantage of this set-up is huge stability mid corner and the ability to slide the front without tucking...

Akira, as you found out, it's not something you can think about while riding. You ten dollars are spent right at the entry to T3!!! by practicing good basic technique: releasing the brake smoothly as close to the tip in point as you can, you will be ready. When you start to push it, like in a racing situation, the lines between the actions will blend and you'll be trail braking without even thinking about it.

In my experience, that's how ALL advanced "techniques" happen. trail braking, backing it in, sliding, etc. You can't just grab for these techniques. They come from pushing the limits of good fundamental riding.

To be honest, that's not likely to happen for most people in a trackday setting. It takes the fire of competition to convince your body to push into the very stressful zone that lies just ahead of your skill level...

[Ken C]

This is one of my favorite topics. We'd be happy to discuss this in detail at next weeks track day.

[TTD]

Yep... great stuff.

I am all about being SMOOTH first... fast second.

For me, I trail brake every corner that I use the brakes. Keeps the front from doing excessive movements, and seems to make the bike turn better.

Making sure that your body weight is mostly supported by your legs/core muscles is critical for all this as well.

You want your hands to be able to operate the controls at the limits of traction without inputting a lot of force on the bars (after the initial countersteer)

If you trailbrake while leaned way over... AND give a lot of bar input... there's an excellent chance of tucking the front.

[duey]

I got to play with alot of trail braking on t1 on thursday. Even though i wasn't doing it on purpose, it just happened naturally as i slow get faster. I must say though, trailbraking into t1 has helped me alot since majority of the time the faster bikes are killing me on the straight, and i'm able to brake much deeper and get into t1 with a good enough gap where i won't get passed on the t2-t3 straight (also on 5 to 6 straight).