GPS Unit vs Phone

[OneCheekRider]

Will be doing a fly-n-ride down the Blue Ridge Parkway. Debating whether or not to find another mount for my TomTom Rider 500 or use TomTom's new phone app for motorcycles called "Go Ride" which appears to provide the same functionality as the GPS unit including ability to use GPX routes.

While I definitely prefer the standalone GPS unit and enjoy the one that is hardwired into my bike, there is a certain level of simplicity using just my phone, at least while traveling. I am concerned about GPS signal, ability for map to work without cell service, and potential overheating issues on my phone. Yes, I know you can download maps, although maybe not the case with the TomTom app.

On a side note, looks like TomTom discontinued US sales of GPS units and are now promoting their apps. I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the availability of navigation on phones and even motorcycles now.

[e30addict]

You will absolutely have signal issues with a phone gps and cell towers. There are areas down there where even a good gps loses signal every now and then.

Phones are great, but my theory is when you need them the most you can count on them the least.

[boosten lebaron]

For what it's worth I prefer a tried and true tom tom. While I agree it's easier to travel with one device I like idea of still having a perfectly working phone in the event of an accident. Plus I like the simplicity of a gps unit itself. I really don't like Google maps altering my planned routes on the fly. I like to set a route and follow it exactly.

[csmutty]

I agree on the stand alone vs the phone. I just did a 5 day bicycle trip without cell service and had my route planned out on my Garmin head unit. Worked pretty flawlessly!

[OreoGaborio]

When Sylwia and I rode down in Ecuador and then from Alaska to Portland we used one or two apps that you pre-download the area that you'll be in which completely eliminated the need for cell reception. The one we used in Ecuador was Maps.Me which, at the time, was highly recommended for South America. I can't remember what we went with in Alaska, I'd have to see if she remembers, but it sounds like your TomTom app may perform similarly to whatever ones we've used.

I'm not convinced that a standalone GPS will have better satellite reception than a cell phone, even in the remotest of areas. Most of the people we came across while riding through Alaska/Yukon were just using cell phones for nav and many of them were going on a LOT more ambitious of a ride than we were. One guy was riding aroudn the entire world, and another kid we met went from Prince Edward Island to Alaska and is now on his way back home from friggin ARGENTINA... he's been on the road motocamping with nothing but what he can carry on his KLR for over two years.

[SRTie4k]

Yeah there's a lot of misinformation in this thread.

I've been using an Android phone without a SIM card as my navigation unit for ~7 years and ~70k miles between 3 bikes now? Every cell phone in the world has GPS built in. No, you don't need cell service, you just need an app that supports offline maps and the offline maps themselves. Also helps to have an app that does point to point navigation, and yes you can do that offline as well. I personally use Locus Maps, and with it I have offline maps of the entire US (you can download the entire world if you want), offline navigation (BRouter), offline hill shading (just a bunch of files to show terrain shading), and it's arguably got the best GPX organization of any app out there. Learning curve is high I will admit, but once you have everything setup correctly, it's so much more convenient than any GPS for following a track. I even developed an "adventure" theme for use in Locus specifically for adventure riders because I find it so critical.

The one thing I will say about many of these phone apps is that if all you need is point to point navigation, a dedicated nav unit simply does it better. The other thing a nav unit does much better is finding waypoints along a track, like food or gas. But I typically stick all of that into a GPX file when I'm on a planned ride. Locus does have a POI database that you can sort by distance from you, but it doesn't always make sense to have to turn around for a mile vs a dedicated unit that will just have you get off a few miles further down your intended route.

The only other thing a lot of phones lack compared to a dedicated GPS unit is that most GPS units have POGO pin charging, so you can charge in inclement weather. Many people use a USB cable to charge their phone while riding, which is fine until it starts to rain, at which point it becomes a bad idea. I get around this by using a phone with wireless charging in a wireless charging phone mount, which allows me to charge in any weather without fear of my charging port melting.

FWIW my buddy has a Garmin Zumo XT that he runs on his 1290SAR, and it's so much more clunky for planned rides than any phone app. It's also got some severe limitations on how many points you can have in a route or track if you plan on a long ride. And the track organization is absolutely awful.

[MattR302]

I’ve got a Kyocera Duraforce phone and a Hondo Garage Juiced Squeeze phone mount I’d probably sell. Bought it for the MABDR a couple years ago, barely used it since the other guys in my group had GPS units and were more savvy with them; i haven’t really used it since. Bought a Garmin after that since I found the Garmin a little easier to use (didn’t want to put in the time/effort to try to learn Android)
If you’re interested I’ll dig it out and get some pics

[RandyO]

I have an older Zumo 450 that I integrated into the dash on my V-strom, no cell phone, I use a SPOT gps tracker for emergency & preprogramed messages

I don't use the Zumo often for navigation, more as a precise speedo and listening to mp3's. I've always looked at paper maps the night before a ride (Delorme Atlas)

[Crconnor18]

On the FJ I have an older zumo that I use more so as a method to get back home if lost etc.

For the 890 and 250f I have the same setup as Matt and SRT (android phone & Gaia app). It is so easy to setup gpx routes and for finding unmaintained roads but does not do the turn by turn direction. I got a universal adapter magnetic USB cord and RTV’d the tip into the phone so I don’t have issues with water and it’s isolated from the cord so vibrations won’t ruin the port.

I did just pickup a Voyager Pro that is in the mail though that I want to play around with and see how it does vs the phone. More to come on that.

[OneCheekRider]

Dug around in storage and managed to find the box from the Rider 550 I bought a few years ago when I decided to upgrade from the Rider 400. Sure enough, there was an extra mount in there since I was able to continue using the mount that came with my Rider 400 that has been permanently affixed to my Tiger 1200. Since I have RAM balls on all bikes and the kit comes with RAM hardware, I decided to use this extra mount as a mobile setup; something I can easily put on all the other street bikes I own. Obviously this is easy with the universal RAM hardware, but since the TomTom wiring harness has exposed cables for Negative/Positive, I just bought a USB C pigtail on Amazon to wire up and ultimately plug into the charging ports I've already mounted on the bikes. So thinking this is easy 'nuff to move around and expand the usage of this GPS device. I'll probably run the TomTom app alongside just to fully compare. Sounds like I should try out some of these other apps as well!

I’ve got a Kyocera Duraforce phone and a Hondo Garage Juiced Squeeze phone mount I’d probably sell. Bought it for the MABDR a couple years ago, barely used it since the other guys in my group had GPS units and were more savvy with them; i haven’t really used it since. Bought a Garmin after that since I found the Garmin a little easier to use (didn’t want to put in the time/effort to try to learn Android)
If you’re interested I’ll dig it out and get some pics

I'm interested in the Hondo Garage phone mount. I still use the original one he sold for a discount on ADV rider many years ago.

[SRTie4k]

I run an LG V50 in a Juiced Squeeze mount. Absolutely wonderful combo. My only (minor) complain with the Juiced Squeeze is that it's a bit on the heavy side and can wobble around if the mounting scheme isn't strong enough.

[Stoneman]

I'm not the ADV guy, but I pay very little attention to my phone and/or navigation while riding. I keep paper maps of all New England states in my saddlebags that I still live by. On the chance I'm gonna plan out a route for the bike using some sort of navigation, I just use Google Maps which can be saved for use offline. I still pay little attention to it and will simply stop somewhere if needed to refresh my memory with either the maps or the Google route I mapped out. The only time I really care about nav & maps is usually when I've had enough and just want to get home the shortest or quickest route possible. I still like to get "lost" from time to time, but I'm not usually in a situation where I'm pressed for time.

I'm not raining on anyone's navigation parade, I've just never really & truly adapted to it like maybe I should. With my level of "combined" ADHD (still trying to figure out what "combined" means!), the less distractions the better. I'd get way too lost in the navigation itself and fear I'd put myself in a dangerous situation.

FWIW - the navigation that comes loaded on my bike sucks.

The only thing I really use my phone for when I'm riding is music, and that's pretty much a set-it-and-forget-it thing. But that's for another thread I 'spose...

[SRTie4k]

I'm not the ADV guy, but I pay very little attention to my phone and/or navigation while riding. I keep paper maps of all New England states in my saddlebags that I still live by. On the chance I'm gonna plan out a route for the bike using some sort of navigation, I just use Google Maps which can be saved for use offline. I still pay little attention to it and will simply stop somewhere if needed to refresh my memory with either the maps or the Google route I mapped out. The only time I really care about nav & maps is usually when I've had enough and just want to get home the shortest or quickest route possible. I still like to get "lost" from time to time, but I'm not usually in a situation where I'm pressed for time.

I'm not raining on anyone's navigation parade, I've just never really & truly adapted to it like maybe I should. With my level of "combined" ADHD (still trying to figure out what "combined" means!), the less distractions the better. I'd get way too lost in the navigation itself and fear I'd put myself in a dangerous situation.

FWIW - the navigation that comes loaded on my bike sucks.

The only thing I really use my phone for when I'm riding is music, and that's pretty much a set-it-and-forget-it thing. But that's for another thread I 'spose...

I'd question what percentage of your riding is paved vs dirt and how many miles a day you typically ride. For me, 350 miles in a day is pretty normal, and 80% of that is dirt based with sparse cell service. Google Maps just doesn't cut it for pre-planned dirt rides; it's garbage really. Having to stop at every other intersection to check maps would be a huge pain in the ass.

If your ride consists of 75% pavement, it's not hard figuring out where you're going without nav with the millions of road signs out there.

[Stoneman]

I'd question what percentage of your riding is paved vs dirt and how many miles a day you typically ride. For me, 350 miles in a day is pretty normal, and 80% of that is dirt based with sparse cell service. Google Maps just doesn't cut it for pre-planned dirt rides; it's garbage really. Having to stop at every other intersection to check maps would be a huge pain in the ass.

If your ride consists of 75% pavement, it's not hard figuring out where you're going without nav with the millions of road signs out there.

Which is exactly why I started my post with "I'm not the ADV guy".

Unless I'm commuting, I shoot for at least a couple hundred miles as a base for my loops. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Again though, I'm not the ADV guy. I thought that was enough to imply I don't ride dirt/ADV/dual sports.

[OneCheekRider]

We have forest routes around here. For example, one of my favorites is called "Forest Road 23S16". These may be paved or unpaved and are not linked in a numerical order that makes logical sense and often lack proper signage. They are also often closed due to snow, landslides, forest fires, etc so they are constantly changing. To reiterate SRT's thoughts, it really does make it a lot simpler to knock out a few hundred miles on a pre-planned route.

Speaking of pre-planning routes, I can't tell you how often I sit on google maps or similar searching for that next awesome road I have yet to experience or even just planning a fun detour that's "kinda sorta on the way". The ability to add a seemingly endless amount of waypoints is pretty awesome. Or making a few options to switch to on the fly depending on timing or potential closures.

oh, and whether I'm leading a route or following, I like to use the Nav to anticipate the next corner since I'm usually riding at a rather spirited pace.

[SRTie4k]

oh, and whether I'm leading a route or following, I like to use the Nav to anticipate the next corner since I'm usually riding at a rather spirited pace.

That's also a big one for me. For some reason us cheap-ass yankees intentionally try to straighten every paved road out, but the dirt roads here zigzag all over the place. Can't count how many times I've entered a corner a bit too hot and have to give it way more brakes than I intended. Not exactly what you want to be doing on freshly laid loose marble gravel.

[breakdirt916]

Bring both

Or better yet, bring neither and make it part of the adventure

[OneCheekRider]

since the TomTom wiring harness has exposed cables for Negative/Positive, I just bought a USB C pigtail on Amazon to wire up and ultimately plug into the charging ports I've already mounted on the bikes. So thinking this is easy 'nuff to move around and expand the usage of this GPS device. .

So I bought this USB C pigtail on amazon, wired it up last night to the TomTom wiring, and couldn't get it to charge the TomTom regardless what I plugged into. I'm not an electrical genius by any means but I'm guessing the TomTom mount is designed to pull in 12v at higher amps from the motorcycle battery and a typical USB port doesn't put out enough juice?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CL7S9C5G...t_details&th=1

[SRTie4k]

So I bought this USB C pigtail on amazon, wired it up last night to the TomTom wiring, and couldn't get it to charge the TomTom regardless what I plugged into. I'm not an electrical genius by any means but I'm guessing the TomTom mount is designed to pull in 12v at higher amps from the motorcycle battery and a typical USB port doesn't put out enough juice?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CL7S9C5G...t_details&th=1

If your TomTom USB-C port is designed as per the USB-IF standard, it has resistors on specific pins that are used to negotiate the charging rate with whatever charger you plug it into. If that negotiation is not available on the other side, it won't allow charging. It's pretty much a guarantee the pigtail you bought does not have this capability (it requires an internal chip to do this), so your TomTom won't allow power through to charge since it can't negotiate.

You'd be better off buying a USB-C port with power pigtail, then using a standard USB-C to USB-C cable to run from the TomTom to the power port, like this.

[OneCheekRider]

If your TomTom USB-C port is designed as per the USB-IF standard, it has resistors on specific pins that are used to negotiate the charging rate with whatever charger you plug it into. If that negotiation is not available on the other side, it won't allow charging. It's pretty much a guarantee the pigtail you bought does not have this capability (it requires an internal chip to do this), so your TomTom won't allow power through to charge since it can't negotiate.

You'd be better off buying a USB-C port with power pigtail, then using a standard USB-C to USB-C cable to run from the TomTom to the power port, like this.

While the TomTom does have a USB charge/input port, I am referring to the wiring loom for the dock/mount, which is just 2 wires: red and black to send power to the two pins on the dock. I figured the USB C pigtail I bought would be a simple exercise in connecting the two. I could use the USB port that is located on the device but worried about long-term vibrations and potential water getting in the device.

[loudbeard]

Liking this thread a lot. Don’t need GPS for loafing around the local stash, but for planned rides, absolutely! I’ve been eyeing the Garmin stuff for a while but never pull the trigger because $5-600 for something I’d rarely use doesn’t work for me. We had Tom Tom GPS mapping our routes for us in Europe which was amazing…put the local knowledge right in our hands. This Android device is something I can definitely see myself investing in.

[SRTie4k]

While the TomTom does have a USB charge/input port, I am referring to the wiring loom for the dock/mount, which is just 2 wires: red and black to send power to the two pins on the dock. I figured the USB C pigtail I bought would be a simple exercise in connecting the two. I could use the USB port that is located on the device but worried about long-term vibrations and potential water getting in the device.

Ah, can't help you then except to recommend using a meter to probe it along it's path. Gotta love shitty proprietary electronics.

That's one really nice thing about using a phone - use whatever phone you like best, whatever app you like best in whatever mount you like best. There are a million options out there.

[TheIglu]

I'm looking forward to this little guy:

https://www.chigee.com/products/aio5-play-for-bmw

[SRTie4k]

I'm looking forward to this little guy:

https://www.chigee.com/products/aio5-play-for-bmw

I've read mixed things about it on advrider. For road riding I'm sure it's perfectly fine, but I believe it does have overheating issues, and it's a bit buggy.

*Edit* I might be thinking of a different AA/CP model.

[TheIglu]

It's not available yet, but the other model that is available has cameras hardwired to it.