Speeding ticket in Ossipee - lawyer referral

[SwiftTone]

I was pulled over while behind another bike. We were going around a curve in the road. A state trooper was going the opposite direction and did a u turn and pulled us over. He said he had us on radar. We know we were going a different speed than what he stated and we doubt he had his radar on.

I want to challenge the fact that he had his radar on. And if he did have his radar on, I think he had the rider in front on radar. I've read it's difficult for a officer to operate radar equipment properly if the cruiser is moving especially if there are multiple targets as he has to verify each hit and target. Given that we were going around a turn this makes it more difficult.

I rather not have the points on my license and would like to reduce the fine if possible. Anyone know any lawyers in the town of Ossipee or Caroll county?

[ZX-12R]

I can't help you with the lawyer but I question the points you are challenging.

What leads you to believe he didn't have his radar on and how would you even begin to prove that? Second, the "I was going the same speed as traffic" argument never works.

[SwiftTone]

I can't help you with the lawyer but I question the points you are challenging.

What leads you to believe he didn't have his radar on and how would you even begin to prove that? Second, the "I was going the same speed as traffic" argument never works.

1. Because we know we weren't going the speed he said he had us on radar.
2. That's not my argument. If he did in fact have radar on, in a moving cruiser with multiple targets, the officer has to verify each hit on target the radar is getting. It's obviously more difficult if we are coming around a turn. I want to challenge that his radar hit is on the leading vehicle and not mine.

[hondarider102]

Lawyers do not challenge the points your trying to make when it comes to traffic tickets, they go in and plea that you are a good person it was an accident and it won't happen again. Its not about proving a point, that method doesn't work. Get a lawyer and you should be all set, i do not have any recommendations in that area though.

[Trajiks9]

David, I would do a quick internet search and find a traffic lawyer that is located out of Laconia/Lakes Region area. Call them and ask if they are willing to answer a few of your questions over the phone. Based on what you're telling us. They may be able to do a better job at advising you to either pay or play.

[aldend123]

Are you aware of the cosine effect regarding radar? If not, read up. It basically means the radar will read lower when off-axis from a straight line shot. Depending on the turn, he may have had a straight, or near-straight shot. But if it was a scenario where he'd be off axis by quite a bit, it means you were allegedly/theoretically going even faster than the read out on the device.

E.g. if the device claimed you were going 55, with a 35 degree angle of read, you would have to be moving at 70. In other words, it only becomes interesting if the potential speed you were going when factoring in cosine effect is impossible or very unrealistic.

[TheIglu]

Radar when driving isn't something he has to aim. That point is lost. It isn't like Laser.

[Danz19899]

I've never had any luck arguing the point you are making. A friend of mine even go written up for 95MPH on the pike . . his car didn't have 5th gear at the time and he was maybe doing 70. argued that his car physically couldn't do that speed and lost. they dont car

However go in say you're sorry they might let you off

[aldend123]

Radar when driving isn't something he has to aim. That point is lost. It isn't like Laser.

That's actually the point. Because it was most likely a fixed device pointed straight-ish with the police car's path, it has an angle with the approaching rider depending on turn, and point(s) the officer read the display. At the moment the motorcycle passes the police car, there probably is not a significant enough angle.

[Garandman]

FWIW while MA and NH are now reciprocal, in our experience if you pay the ticket right away it never shows up to the MA RMV. Maybe we were lucky or maybe that's how it works.

Also in our experience out of state drivers pleading their case in NH makes the MA Magistrate system look like a big friendly teddy bear/

YMMV, in fact I hope it does! Not sure it's worth spending $350 to $1,000 on an attorney.

[BostonSVkid]

OH yeah a magistrate is way more lenient than the NH judges. Go ahead, take the day off, show up, fight it and enjoy losing.

[Petorius]

Also, isn't there some rule about your first 2 points not affecting your premium (in MA)? If this is your first incident with an MA license you might want to look into it.

[scottieducati]

Fight it every... single... time. If you get a court date, request a new date (in writing) if possible. Your best hope is he doesn't show up....

Strongly recommend getting a local lawyer if possible.

[aldend123]

Also, isn't there some rule about your first 2 points not affecting your premium (in MA)? If this is your first incident with an MA license you might want to look into it.

I'd always heard "the first ticket doesn't count". But I think technically, it won't raise your rating above a 0. The catch is that those with perfect records benefit from a negative rating -98 and -99. So I think they can bring you up to a 0. I'm guessing its a word game. They aren't raising your premium. You're losing a safe driver discount instead. A 0 is probably equivalent to those of you who have a ticket or two on your record. Anyone know the truth on that?

If you decide against the lawyer, it still seems worth it to show up in person and do your best. If anything, so you aren't saying to yourself a year from now "shoulda tried to fight it" each time you hear a story of someone being found not guilty of something they didn't do. But this will likely mean two events. The first is the hearing with a prosecutor and/or state trooper representative. Not a magistrate, right? Then the actual trial if the prosecution doesn't drop it. The "hope he doesn't show up" approach isn't relevant for the first part, because they send someone to go speak for everyone. Only at the trial would the officer have to be present. And even then, can't the judge reschedule if you're requesting to interview the witness? You can ask the judge to drop it, but I didn't think it was guarantee.

[golden chicken]

Buy a radar detector. It'll pay for itself.

[RandyO]

The first is the hearing with a prosecutor and/or state trooper representative. Not a magistrate, right?

wrong, in NH you go directly to trial in district court, you do have the opportunity to request discovery prior to trial, that's it

link to lawyers in Carroll County that have traffic as one of their specialties Saved List

[Not Sure]

Buy a radar detector. It'll pay for itself.

This. Paid for mine many times over.

[aldend123]

wrong, in NH you go directly to trial in district court, you do have the opportunity to request discovery prior to trial, that's it

link to lawyers in Carroll County that have traffic as one of their specialties Saved List

It's called a pre-trial conference. And it is part of the process as of January 2012. "The officers who issue the citations do not have to attend the pre-trial conference which is held in a courtroom and attended by the prosecutor or a law enforcement representative. A court clerk is present to process the case and set a trial date if requested. "

Also relevant to those hoping for a no-show dismissal. There's still hope, but not much: "The courts try to schedule trials on days when the officer who issued the summons is on duty; otherwise departments are required to pay the officer overtime. State police realized a significant reduction in court witness fees in jurisdictions that conducted the pilot project using mandatory pre-trial conferences. The officers who issue the citations do not have to attend the pre-trial conference which is held in a courtroom and attended by the prosecutor or a law enforcement representative."

[AVI8_636]

It's called a pre-trial conference. And it is part of the process as of January 2012. "The officers who issue the citations do not have to attend the pre-trial conference which is held in a courtroom and attended by the prosecutor or a law enforcement representative. A court clerk is present to process the case and set a trial date if requested. "

Also relevant to those hoping for a no-show dismissal. There's still hope, but not much: "The courts try to schedule trials on days when the officer who issued the summons is on duty; otherwise departments are required to pay the officer overtime. State police realized a significant reduction in court witness fees in jurisdictions that conducted the pilot project using mandatory pre-trial conferences. The officers who issue the citations do not have to attend the pre-trial conference which is held in a courtroom and attended by the prosecutor or a law enforcement representative."

Excellent post and 100% correct.

OP, It's pretty difficult to get out of a ticket entirely, but just by fighting it and going to a pre-trial you will automatically have your fine/speed reduced. It's a no brainer to just show up for 2 minutes and have the officer reduce the fine. If you're trying to completely have the ticket thrown out, you will need to go to pre-trial, decline the reduction and request a court date. Then you'll meet with the issuing officer and a judge. You can always try and speak to the officer before going into the court room and explaining your side of the story. You MUST be professional and you MUST be prepared. Going in saying that he screwed up, that he doesn't know how to use his equipment, or if your only argument is "I don't think your radar was on" isn't going to work. Also it's important to note that once you go in front of a judge, it's out of the officers hands. There is no more point reduction, or fine reduction. The judge will simply find you guilty or not. So if all you want is a fine reduction, take the pretrial offer, otherwise it's all or nothing when you go to court.

Also, what was your demeanor like when he pulled you over and issued you a citation? Did you argue with him, or act disrespectful? The officer takes notes, and being respectful goes a long way with them. Also, what is your history like? Have other tickets? If so, thats another strike against getting out of it.

[Stromper]

Cop radar is vector adding it calculates angles and speeds and reads the highest speeds it sees. Brandy new thing 1978

IT might cost you like 750 for representative so unless you were like license losing 20 plus over may not be worth it BUT

I go to the courthouse, stand on the steps and find the nearest law office and ask if they do traffic or recommend
look for an ex DA is the best

[ZX-12R]

Cop radar is vector adding it calculates angles and speeds and reads the highest speeds it sees.

Huh? How does a radar with a single emitter, a single antenna, and no angle benchmark to measure from calculate angles?

[Gecko]

And if he did have his radar on, I think he had the rider in front on radar. I've read it's difficult for a officer to operate radar equipment properly if the cruiser is moving especially if there are multiple targets as he has to verify each hit and target. Given that we were going around a turn this makes it more difficult.

Depends on the equipment LEO was using. In my neck of the woods, the Stalker 2X has become a very popular with many towns. It can show up to 4 front "targets" at the same time, in 4 independent windows (http://www.stalkerradar.com/law_2X.php). It locks, he turns around, pulls you over and sorts out who was who (1st in line, 2nd in line).

In the future, invest in a good radar detector for the bike ... my preference is a V1.

[caboteria]

My daughter recently got clocked dead to rights by a NH state police airplane. I won't say how fast she was going but the ticket was $258. She contested it so I went up to the Hampton District Court to support her. The hearing was run by a State Police Sargent and staffed by two troopers. When it was our turn we went into a tiny office with one of the troopers who read the file for 30 seconds and offered to reduce the ticket to $67 (i.e., much slower than she was actually going) in exchange for a guilty plea. We paid with a credit card and were home in MetroWest by 11am.

I don't yet know what the insurance implications will be but all in all I think my kid got a fair deal. I don't know how much a lawyer would cost but I can't imagine how it could be worth it unless this ticket means that you'll lose your license or something.

[SwiftTone]

There is a lot of information here. I'm going to take my time and read through it tonight.

[TheIglu]

If you plea it down, make sure it gets reduced to a NON MOVING VIOLATION.

It's not the cost of the ticket, it's the cost of insurance. Non-moving violations don't change your insurance rates.

Last ticket I contested, I offered to happily pay the entire fine if they changed it to a non-moving violation.