Insurance?

[tropicoz]

I appreciate the input fellas. This thread finally got me an appointment to meet with an insurance guy tomorrow. I have life insurance with an ample payout, so not worried there. Usually my medical bills have been easily handled, as rare as they were. What I saved in not having insurance over the last 10 years has been significant, but then again I had no race plans, only track days.

[OreoGaborio]

Racing without medical insurance is a risk that very few, perhaps no reasonable people would ever take.


Option 1 -Race without medial insurance, get hurt, run the plausible risk of not receiving full and proper care because you don't have medical insurance, go broke trying to pay for it and never afford to race again even if you make a full recovery.

Or

Race WITH medical insurance, get hurt, receive full and proper care, get covered for most or all of the expenses and continue racing assuming you make a full recovery.

Pretty simple choice, if you ask me.

[tropicoz]

Racing without medical insurance is a risk that very few, perhaps no reasonable people would ever take.


Option 1 -Race without medial insurance, get hurt, run the plausible risk of not receiving full and proper care because you don't have medical insurance, go broke trying to pay for it and never afford to race again even if you make a full recovery.

Or

Race WITH medical insurance, get hurt, receive full and proper care, get covered for most or all of the expenses and continue racing assuming you make a full recovery.

Pretty simple choice, if you ask me.

Roger that! Never know what can happen eef eye poosh and poosh to make a de goood race!

[BrianC]

Based on the original post, I was under the impression the options were 1.) Race w/no insurance, or 2.) Do not race because insurance is too expensive.

I personally had to make that decision last season because my company didn't offer health insurance, and for me to buy my own would mean that there would be no money for racing. So my reasoning was something like this: I work on the highways and state roads everyday, sometimes in the highspeed lane w/traffic whizzing by me a foot away w/out insurance, I go on street rides w/out insurance, and the only time I've ever paid for insurance(about a 3-yr period offered thru a company I worked for), I never used it once. There was no way I was choosing to pay for something, as it turns out I never needed, that would've prevented me from going racing. I just don't see the reasoning that it is okay to risk your life on a motorcycle, but not take the risk of getting some medical bills. There will always be bills in life, but going racing for some of us is a once in a lifetime opportunity that must be taken if it is ever going to happen.

The risk of not receiving proper care for not having coverage hasn't been my experience, and Bergs... no one in my family has ever paid for my hospital bills, nor will they ever have too. It's not like this is medieval England where you go to prison if you can't afford to pay your relative's medical debts... . The reason I say this could be a touchy issue, is that now we have the people who are going to say, "you shouldn't ride a bicycle down the street w/out health insurance because that is just irresponsible", and there is probably some rich fool out there who feels like if a person can't afford health insurance, they shouldn't be allowed to do anything fun or risky... . It is a topic that could get heated because different people have different views as to what class of people are allowed to do what. I personally feel that if some chick saved enough welfare checks to go racing, let her do it!

Racing without medical insurance is a risk that very few, perhaps no reasonable people would ever take.


Option 1 -Race without medial insurance, get hurt, run the plausible risk of not receiving full and proper care because you don't have medical insurance, go broke trying to pay for it and never afford to race again even if you make a full recovery.

Or

Race WITH medical insurance, get hurt, receive full and proper care, get covered for most or all of the expenses and continue racing assuming you make a full recovery.

Pretty simple choice, if you ask me.

[butcher bergs]

Brian, are you keeping your arm or not? The Dr's are waiting.



Basically, without coverage you are running multiple risks and none of them are worth not being able to race ever again.

Other risks, besides lawyers knocking on your family's door: Poor credit score due to lack of medical payment, permanent tissue/ bone damage

Again, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

[OreoGaborio]

I agree with Bergs.

Based on the original post, I was under the impression the options were 1.) Race w/no insurance, or 2.) Do not race because insurance is too expensive.

Given that choice, I would choose to not race. It pains me to say it, but without medical insurance, racing would be the first thing I'd sacrafice. If I couldn't afford medical insurance, there's not a chance in hell that you'd see me on the starting grid.

I work on the highways and state roads everyday, sometimes in the highspeed lane w/traffic whizzing by me a foot away w/out insurance

I think there's a very big difference between taking part in a risky activity without medial insurance in order to EARN A LIVING and taking part in a risky activity without medial insurance in order SPEND MONEY ON RACING.

One is a risk taken out of necessity. You need to earn a living to provide for your family. You're getting paid to put yourself in harms way and if something happens, even if you don't have medical insurance, I'm sure there are programs availble to you to help pay your medical bills.
The other, in my opinion, is a risk taken out of foolishness. Racing is NOT a necessity. You're paying someone to put yourself in harms way. You get hurt, there's nothing there to help you, except maybe the Karen Hornbecker fund. Personally, I think that money should go to WHOEVER needs it, but I would rather that money go to a racer with enough brains to have medical insurance.

Plain and simple: Motorcycle racing is dangerous and injuries are extremely common. I'm not saying you think this, but if someone were to think they'll never get injured in the sport, they'd be an idiot. And they'd be a bigger idiot if they thought medical care would be cheaper than paying insurance up front.

As Gerard said (an extremely accomplished expert racer), the medical bills he racked up after his racing injury topped half a million dollars... That's a very real risk that everyone takes when they line up on the grids. No thank you.

[BrianC]

I definitely agree w/most of what you guys are saying. There really isn't an argument that racing w/out insurance is the way to go if there is any possible way to afford it, but if forced to choose between the two, I'd go racing w/out it like I did last season. That choice is based on reason, however different from others reasoning, it is still thought out and the consequences weighed. It really depends on your view of money, the medical and insurance system in our country, and also I believe genetics... . Some people take greater risks than others for whatever reason, and while the more cautious person may make out on some decicions, the risk-taker will make out on others. With racing the only thing at stake is fun, but I've always felt that I'd rather risk my life/money and have fun than stay safe and be miserable. It's really an interesting topic because it involves examining the different types of people and how each type views the other. There are alot of choices similar to this that people make in their lives, and one could argue against investing, changing jobs, crossing the street, or many other actions where unnecessary risk is involved. It just comes down to the type of person involved and their individual goal.

[CBR929RE]

Even a small getoff can result in high medical bills. Broken collarbones and far too common (and pricey) to skip it.

yup. the ambulance ride from the track is over $500 and it looks like my insurance isn't covering it for some reason. the ER bill and xrays come to about $3500. I think I've had 5 follow up Dr's visits at $1000 each, which I think is unusual but its because I needed medical clearance to go back to work because I have a physical job. Probably be a lot less visits for desk jockeys. plus x-rays for each Dr's visit. so I think the total is around $10k (I have another follow up in Jan). I haven't paid a dime yet but I owe a couple hundred in copays plus the ambulance. This was all for a clean simple break in the middle of the collarbone that didn't require surgery. And this was at a track day. I have used way more insurance money than I've put in.


Brian you'd rather take the tax hit than not carry insurance? you race a motorcycle, ride BMX and work a physical potentially dangerous job. Even cheap crappy insurance is better than nothing. 1 minor accident and financially its already the better choice.

[brady]

maybe lower cost, high deductible (i.e. catastrophic-only) coverage would be an option?

[BrianC]

Brian you'd rather take the tax hit than not carry insurance? you race a motorcycle, ride BMX and work a physical potentially dangerous job. Even cheap crappy insurance is better than nothing. 1 minor accident and financially its already the better choice.

So far the tax consequence hasn't really been noticeable to me. I would rather have insurance no doubt, but the costs that I've found for coverage aren't worth it to me. Anytime I've had health insurance I never used it... just not the type of person who goes to the hospital or needs meds for anything. I know there is always the possibility something could happen that would require medical attn., but it would have to be very serious for me to go to the hospital and the chances of that are pretty slim. As you know, I recently crashed my bmx bike and screwed up my thumb, wrist, and ribs... most people would have seen a doctor to at least get x-rayed, but I'm just not into that. I sucked it up, went to work, and a month later I'm ready to ride again. If in the event I needed to be hospitalized, I would deal with that by talking to the hospital staff about what are my best options. When I was a kid(18 or 19), I had no health insurance and a kid I fought bit the top of my ear off... I talked to the hospital, they sent me to a teaching hospital in Boston where I had 2 or 3 surgeries done free of charge and my ear injury is barely noticeable. There are ways to work it out. Even if I got stuck w/a million-dollar medical bill, I'd be like okay, I'll get right on that after I win the lottery.

[OreoGaborio]

*exits stage left*

[tropicoz]

Brian, I'm with you to an extent. The only time I've gone to a hospital in the last 15 years has been to fix my fingers after a table saw incident. That cost was expensive but didn't nearly touch the $70000+ I saved by not carrying insurance. I've had broken fingers, sprains and a host of other injuries over the years which I never seeked medical help for. Didn't feel I needed it. There's times when you know deep inside "oh shit, this is more serious", but otherwise I think people are too quick to get help. Now having said that, IF I had insurance maybe I'd be more inclined to get checked out. Who knows, I might be in a much worse place in the next 20 years from NOT getting care when I should have. Or, I'll be better off and more hardy because of it.

Anyway, I just signed for family health insurance this morning. Don't want to pay as much a we will, but it is 100% tax deductible so that is a huge plus! Can't wait, going for a check up next week.

Now I have an even bigger problem, one that should be in a separate thread. I can't race my 1000 as a novice????

[Trouble]

I know there is always the possibility something could happen that would require medical attn., but it would have to be very serious for me to go to the hospital and the chances of that are pretty slim.

Yup, and a Hawk can't be high-sided, which I did on a track day, well below my "race pace", and broke my foot. It's only the second time in my life I've broken a bone and the first time I was ever in the emergency room. I would have spent the next 10+ years paying for that assuming I sold my bikes and never did anything fun for those years. Instead it cost me about $3000 in bills and copays and I was able to be back having fun on the track the following year. Luckily I work in an office because if I needed to be able to walk it would have been months of unemployment in addition to the medical bills. I don't have any kids depending on me and my wife would be taken care of I died but I'm not willing to risk my financial future on a day at the track. It's enough to be risking my health and life.

[butcher bergs]

Right behind you, Pete...

[TheIglu]

It's not like anyone has ever gotten anything serious like a ruptured appendix from a simple track get-off.

[McBiggity]

It's not like anyone has ever gotten anything serious like a ruptured appendix from a simple track get-off.

or spleen,
I'm sure Jersey's med bills were through the roof.

[mzdagrl]

or spleen,
I'm sure Jersey's med bills were through the roof.

Good God.....you had to bring that one up.....

Another Drunkathon recipient comes to mind as well, and his wasn't a 7 bike pile-up, but a freak accident.

[MysteriousR1]

I am not a racer by anymeans. But, as a self employed carpenter I pay around $250 a month for health care. From what I read around here that sounds like the cost of a rear tire.
I just cant comprehend how you could race anything without some form of healthcare??

[BrianC]

250/mo. is damn good... my quote was almost double that per week for a family plan.

I am not a racer by anymeans. But, as a self employed carpenter I pay around $250 a month for health care. From what I read around here that sounds like the cost of a rear tire.
I just cant comprehend how you could race anything without some form of healthcare??

[MysteriousR1]

Granted, I dont have a family plan. But does your family have some sort of coverage you could get on? A friend of mine just had to get a family plan and told me that Blue Cross was acually willing to work with him. Dont know the exact number. It wasnt $2k....
It sucks to pay, big time. Have never once used in the 10years or so that ive had it. But, you never know..

[BrianC]

Back when I had my kids, my wife and I both had health insurance thru our jobs... She left work and never returned, so I upgraded to a family plan and the company was paying a good portion of it so it wasn't that bad. The problem was, I wasn't making enough at that job to support her and the kids, so I started doing the work I do now which has a really high pay rate, but nothing in the way of benefits. I've worked for 3 different companies over the past 5 years doing rate work, and none of them pay a percentage of health insurance. It's a sucky situation, but my wife is getting ready to go back to work now that the kids will be in school, so hopefully the insurance thing won't be an issue anymore.

[OreoGaborio]

250/mo. is damn good... my quote was almost double that per week for a family plan.

*enters stage rear* (that's right.... I came in the back door)

Wait.... so not only do YOU not have insurance, but your family doesn't either? And you get to go race motorcycles?

*exits stage front* (out the hooha)

[BrianC]

Did my wife hack into your account???

*enters stage rear* (that's right.... I came in the back door)

Wait.... so not only do YOU not have insurance, but your family doesn't either? And you get to go race motorcycles?

*exits stage front* (out the hooha)

[mzdagrl]

*enters stage rear* (that's right.... I came in the back door)

Wait.... so not only do YOU not have insurance, but your family doesn't either? And you get to go race motorcycles?

*exits stage front* (out the hooha)

I'm with you on this one.

[OreoGaborio]

Did my wife hack into your account???

No. It's just us, Responsibility and Common Fucking Sense.